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welcome to tales from the rabbit hole

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i'm your host mick west my guest today

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is uh lieutenant tim macmillan retired

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or just tim mcmillan

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tim is a former police officer

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investigator and writer but uh tim why

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don't you uh start out and kind of give

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us a quick background of who you are and

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uh where you are now

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sure yeah i'll try to be as brief as

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possible but just give you a little

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background on my uh you know where my

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come from when i approach this topic and

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that is true i uh

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who was in law enforcement for an agency

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just outside savannah georgia for almost

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17 years

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very fortunate that the agency i worked

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for actually work for

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the chief of police i work for is now

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the u.s attorney for

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u.s marshall for the southern district

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so he afforded me a lot of opportunities

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so

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i wore a lot of titles and and filled a

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lot of roles which included violet

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crimes investigator i was an

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interrogator at one point i was uh i

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worked uh

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canine division i was a shift commander

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i worked something that's kind of was

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newfangled at the time which is uh

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intelligence policing where you're

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you're identifying asymmetrical

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connections between individuals uh so an

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intelligence criminal intelligence angle

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i am an instructor uh my my kind of

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expertise in the classes that i designed

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and taught for the state of georgia and

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at the federal level

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relate to where my academic background

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is which i hold undergraduate degrees in

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mathematics and psychology in particular

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cognitive psychology

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perception based stuff and so i

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developed classes for

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applied applied cognitive psychology for

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law enforcement implicit bias type

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things interviews interrogations you

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name it

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i could keep going and bore everybody

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there they don't want to hear all about

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me but

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but the bulk of my experience does

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relate to law enforcement investigative

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capacity and so now uh you are a

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investigative journalist

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and you've been writing a lot about an

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area of mutual interest and which is why

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we're here today which is uh ufos

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and in particular the ufo

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videos and the ufo kind of

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events that have been talked about a lot

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for the past uh yeah three years and

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before that

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uh which uh kind of culminated in these

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three video releases recently uh from

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the us navy there's the three videos

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these grainy little black and white

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videos the fleur video the gimbal video

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and the go fast video been seen all over

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tv and we've done lots of talking about

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what they might be and everything

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uh what what kind of got you

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started in writing about uh this type of

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thing and these these events in

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particular

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sure i i

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often well it's not well known but i

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tell people and i have a problem saying

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that that uh my interest in the subject

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really emerged about nine years ago when

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myself and some other police officers

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actually saw something weird in the sky

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now i caveat that by saying

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my experience was nowhere near as

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dramatic as you hear some people

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describe i am

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perfectly content saying i don't have a

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pro you know a pragmatic explanation but

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uh the area we're in is a lot of

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military activity in fact ironically the

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2015 events were about 50 miles off the

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coast of where i lived and so a lot of

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military activity could have been

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something of that nature but uh

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initially i got interested and it really

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stemmed from my background in cognitive

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psychology perception i was wondering if

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what i saw i knew it wasn't

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hallucination because we had witnesses

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and other independent witnesses but uh

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is what people are seeing with these

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events really what they're seeing and

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it's kind of based on uh linguistic

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principles that uh if you lack the

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language for something it's hard to

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perceive we won't have to go down that

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rabbit hole not the plugins

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that sounds fascinating actually

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um well we can if you want but that was

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my real involvement until

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uh i took early retirement bought my

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last four years out

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simply because i worked night shift for

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about five years and have small kids and

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i didn't get to see them so i took

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retirement and for a year i worked as an

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intelligence and investigative analyst

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for a private firm until

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about eight or nine months ago

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my wife works for department of defense

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and we had an opportunity to come move

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and live in germany so i'm coming live

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to you from germany right now

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um

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and so in being interested in this and i

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think probably like yourself

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when these events

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really became popular seeing them on the

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the new york times in the news

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for me in my background which which was

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investigations and criminal

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investigations

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i saw this void in what i consider and

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this is not to down any other journalist

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or anybody because

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i tell everybody i'm not a journalist

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i'm an investigator who sometimes writes

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and is very fortunate to write for

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publications like the war zone vice

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popular mechanics but i felt like there

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wasn't any real investigation going into

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it and i think

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i i think we probably share in this idea

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that

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the implication if these are something

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very complex

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not easily explained

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that's significant and so i was kind of

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like

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well

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why is no one putting forth the effort

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here it's it's just a quick news blurb

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or

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an entertainment tv show so what led me

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down throughout as i i have always been

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was people that's again probably like

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yourself when you do the experiments and

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everything it's kind of like i'm not

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going to wait on anybody else i'm going

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to do it myself

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and so

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that's what's led me to this point and

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the last year i would say now

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i'm probably most publicly known for

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some of the articles that i've been

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fortunate enough to put out there and

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some mainstream publications um

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really i will say approaching it from a

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national security and defense standpoint

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um

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i i've only written one article about

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ufos and that was about stanton

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friedman's archives for vice news i

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thought it was a cool story i thought he

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was a great man who passed away and i

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thought

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people should know that his archives are

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available all my other stories if people

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really paid attention

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their defense national security stories

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that happen involve ufos and so

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that's

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kind of how i got into this topic and

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kind of where i'm at right now

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with it yeah that's fascinating because

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we seem to be coming you know kind of at

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the same subject from different angles

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in a way like i i personally do a lot of

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analyzing the videos

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and to a certain extent analyzing the

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the eyewitness accounts in terms of like

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how fast things are moving and things

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like that

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uh

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people involved

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and on the the institutions like the

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military and the

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the big machine that's behind everything

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and how do you how do you get

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information out of that big machine

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uh so

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how do you how do you go about like you

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know you wanted to investigate say like

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the the fleur incident that the nimitz

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incident

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where did you start with that

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sure and you hit the nail on the head

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and uh in terms we do have differing

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approaches but i say again kind of a

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similar goal and um

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i will be remiss if i don't point this

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out right up front that um

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i know you get a lot of flack online and

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sometimes i rip you and everything but i

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i do have a lot of respect to commend

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you because i have noticed i mean you're

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willing to respectfully engage with

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people even when they're

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very

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angry and you know insults and

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everything and so it's great to have an

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opportunity and i appreciate you letting

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me come on here because

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from different backgrounds different

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approaches um that's actually all i'm

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advocating with any of this and so um

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in terms of how you go about it is i go

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about what i know

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and that is you're right

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my specialty is with the human side of

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investigations meaning interviews uh

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which include interrogations and that

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sounds scary in the sense because you

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think of the tv phone books it's just a

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different manner in how you approach and

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talk to people to try to determine

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uh if information they're sharing is

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both accurate and or try to work uh

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within something that i know that you've

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talked about and cover well which is

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memory fallibility and

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how memories distorted how can you

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reach this to a point where

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these would be eyewitnesses i'd feel

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comfortable bringing to a court of law

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and and having them testify and so it

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starts with a human angle uh is how i

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approach it uh as you mentioned

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kind of by happenstance i grew up in a

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big military family um

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people who work within the pentagon with

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worked within the dia and so as a little

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kid you know i'd hear them and uh

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you know my uncle and his friends and

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their buddies drinking and talking about

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all the bureaucracy and all the little

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intangibles isn't fun um and so i get a

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real good understanding of how the

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bureaucratic processes work

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in addition to i think when i working in

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a localized government setting it's kind

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of a microsome of the federal government

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of where

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uh decisions are often made

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and you know this from the work you do

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conspiracy theory kind of emerges

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because it helps fill in that gap of

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unknown information

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and you don't realize

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some decisions are really arbitrary some

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decisions are made because of some

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somebody's selfishness at a high end um

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and you know you deal with elected

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leaders that maybe aren't qualified but

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they got votes and so i do underst i

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have been able to

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connect i would say with a lot of the

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people who both have worked in

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government who are working in presently

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in this type of genre

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and out of it by just kind of

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00:10:04,790 --> 00:10:03,279
understanding

285
00:10:06,470 --> 00:10:04,800
and hopefully

286
00:10:08,470 --> 00:10:06,480
being able to share the things that just

287
00:10:10,069 --> 00:10:08,480
seem natural to them like they just say

288
00:10:11,190 --> 00:10:10,079
oh that's silly and they dismiss

289
00:10:11,990 --> 00:10:11,200
something

290
00:10:13,269 --> 00:10:12,000
um

291
00:10:15,430 --> 00:10:13,279
i know why it seems silly to them

292
00:10:18,230 --> 00:10:15,440
because all the other weird factors and

293
00:10:20,230 --> 00:10:18,240
so i try i do try very very hard anybody

294
00:10:22,870 --> 00:10:20,240
who's seen me on twitter or anything

295
00:10:25,509 --> 00:10:22,880
you'll see me cite u.s code sections

296
00:10:28,310 --> 00:10:25,519
constantly i'm a legal nerd i'll admit

297
00:10:30,550 --> 00:10:28,320
it um but i think that's important and i

298
00:10:32,630 --> 00:10:30,560
i will say with this topic i think you

299
00:10:34,630 --> 00:10:32,640
and i would would be

300
00:10:36,790 --> 00:10:34,640
you know heel to step in terms of the

301
00:10:38,949 --> 00:10:36,800
idea that the in the

302
00:10:39,990 --> 00:10:38,959
infestation of conspiracy theory is very

303
00:10:42,230 --> 00:10:40,000
easy

304
00:10:45,509 --> 00:10:42,240
because there's a lot of things that are

305
00:10:48,470 --> 00:10:45,519
boring like those policies and laws

306
00:10:49,350 --> 00:10:48,480
that allow for that to come in and so

307
00:10:50,550 --> 00:10:49,360
just

308
00:10:53,750 --> 00:10:50,560
hopefully being able to give some people

309
00:10:55,590 --> 00:10:53,760
some understanding of what's legal what

310
00:10:57,910 --> 00:10:55,600
how things are normal

311
00:10:59,190 --> 00:10:57,920
in a policy perspective world is is

312
00:11:00,949 --> 00:10:59,200
important

313
00:11:01,990 --> 00:11:00,959
because ultimately it helps us give a

314
00:11:03,829 --> 00:11:02,000
real

315
00:11:05,110 --> 00:11:03,839
decision or conclusion as to what's

316
00:11:05,990 --> 00:11:05,120
going on here

317
00:11:08,870 --> 00:11:06,000
um

318
00:11:10,470 --> 00:11:08,880
and so for me you know this the last uh

319
00:11:12,630 --> 00:11:10,480
most significant article i published was

320
00:11:14,790 --> 00:11:12,640
the popular mechanics

321
00:11:17,190 --> 00:11:14,800
piece right i revealed the the past 10

322
00:11:19,750 --> 00:11:17,200
month report and and tried to reveal as

323
00:11:21,750 --> 00:11:19,760
much as i could on what was going on

324
00:11:25,190 --> 00:11:21,760
with these government programs back in

325
00:11:27,190 --> 00:11:25,200
2008 to 2012

326
00:11:29,509 --> 00:11:27,200
and potentially what's going on today

327
00:11:31,350 --> 00:11:29,519
and also try to answer some of the

328
00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:31,360
questions that have lingered out there

329
00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:32,560
about some of these people's

330
00:11:37,030 --> 00:11:34,160
involvements

331
00:11:41,750 --> 00:11:40,630
a lot of gumshoe work

332
00:11:43,670 --> 00:11:41,760
and

333
00:11:45,110 --> 00:11:43,680
you know

334
00:11:46,710 --> 00:11:45,120
without having and i always have to be

335
00:11:48,790 --> 00:11:46,720
careful and i want to make sure that i

336
00:11:51,910 --> 00:11:48,800
make this point because you know in

337
00:11:54,470 --> 00:11:51,920
engaging the ufo quote community

338
00:11:56,230 --> 00:11:54,480
um conspiracies are easy and i get

339
00:11:58,069 --> 00:11:56,240
people saying well who's your source

340
00:11:59,030 --> 00:11:58,079
tell it to me and i'm like

341
00:12:00,470 --> 00:11:59,040
you know i

342
00:12:02,389 --> 00:12:00,480
all these things go under the same

343
00:12:04,310 --> 00:12:02,399
standards the editorial standards these

344
00:12:05,990 --> 00:12:04,320
publications and i treat them the same

345
00:12:07,590 --> 00:12:06,000
way i would as a confidential informant

346
00:12:09,190 --> 00:12:07,600
in the court of law

347
00:12:11,350 --> 00:12:09,200
but i am

348
00:12:13,590 --> 00:12:11,360
legally bound by supreme court ruling

349
00:12:16,470 --> 00:12:13,600
that if i talk to somebody and they

350
00:12:18,389 --> 00:12:16,480
provide me with a valid reason why they

351
00:12:20,069 --> 00:12:18,399
require anonymity

352
00:12:22,150 --> 00:12:20,079
i'm legally obligated to give that to

353
00:12:23,269 --> 00:12:22,160
them and so i could be held liable and

354
00:12:25,590 --> 00:12:23,279
so

355
00:12:27,350 --> 00:12:25,600
um there's a lot of little factors that

356
00:12:29,829 --> 00:12:27,360
go in there to try to form a full

357
00:12:31,269 --> 00:12:29,839
picture of it and i think people would

358
00:12:33,590 --> 00:12:31,279
probably

359
00:12:36,470 --> 00:12:33,600
be shocked at the things that i don't

360
00:12:38,710 --> 00:12:36,480
publish or don't share because it's not

361
00:12:40,949 --> 00:12:38,720
corroborated and

362
00:12:42,870 --> 00:12:40,959
um but that's a big problem though isn't

363
00:12:44,389 --> 00:12:42,880
it because it's the uh this this this

364
00:12:46,870 --> 00:12:44,399
wall of

365
00:12:48,389 --> 00:12:46,880
on one hand uh uh secrecy and the the

366
00:12:50,470 --> 00:12:48,399
those things that are naturally secret

367
00:12:52,110 --> 00:12:50,480
like state secrets and operational

368
00:12:53,750 --> 00:12:52,120
secrets in there and then there's this

369
00:12:55,509 --> 00:12:53,760
confidentiality thing where there's some

370
00:12:56,790 --> 00:12:55,519
people they know things but they don't

371
00:12:58,310 --> 00:12:56,800
want to talk because they don't want the

372
00:13:00,230 --> 00:12:58,320
publicity because they just don't want

373
00:13:01,269 --> 00:13:00,240
the the press knocking on their door or

374
00:13:03,030 --> 00:13:01,279
whatever

375
00:13:05,430 --> 00:13:03,040
so you've got all this

376
00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:05,440
this this big massive information that's

377
00:13:10,150 --> 00:13:07,440
kind of hidden behind a cloud

378
00:13:12,230 --> 00:13:10,160
that you personally know some of and you

379
00:13:13,910 --> 00:13:12,240
can perhaps tell me some bits of it in

380
00:13:14,790 --> 00:13:13,920
confidence that i can't tell other

381
00:13:17,269 --> 00:13:14,800
people

382
00:13:19,509 --> 00:13:17,279
and so we all know little bits and bobs

383
00:13:21,110 --> 00:13:19,519
and you probably know way more than most

384
00:13:23,670 --> 00:13:21,120
people

385
00:13:25,910 --> 00:13:23,680
and then we have to try to kind of write

386
00:13:26,949 --> 00:13:25,920
stories or make videos or do articles

387
00:13:29,910 --> 00:13:26,959
based on

388
00:13:32,870 --> 00:13:29,920
things that we can't tell other people

389
00:13:35,829 --> 00:13:32,880
how do we work in that framework

390
00:13:38,629 --> 00:13:35,839
it's it's very difficult and and i hope

391
00:13:40,870 --> 00:13:38,639
people understand that and and i'll say

392
00:13:43,350 --> 00:13:40,880
um you know if anybody's seen our

393
00:13:44,150 --> 00:13:43,360
conversations on twitter or in general

394
00:13:45,670 --> 00:13:44,160
um

395
00:13:49,590 --> 00:13:45,680
i don't

396
00:13:51,269 --> 00:13:49,600
i understand exactly what's going on

397
00:13:53,509 --> 00:13:51,279
here and you're right i think you talk

398
00:13:55,430 --> 00:13:53,519
about this considerably the low

399
00:13:58,550 --> 00:13:55,440
information zone

400
00:13:59,829 --> 00:13:58,560
and um i will say

401
00:14:01,110 --> 00:13:59,839
one point i'd like to make clear because

402
00:14:03,990 --> 00:14:01,120
i don't know that i've ever made it

403
00:14:05,590 --> 00:14:04,000
clear in an interview and things is that

404
00:14:10,629 --> 00:14:05,600
one problem when it comes to this

405
00:14:12,550 --> 00:14:10,639
particular subject so ufos or uap

406
00:14:14,949 --> 00:14:12,560
and we can get into later why that term

407
00:14:17,269 --> 00:14:14,959
uap is now used because i don't i think

408
00:14:20,310 --> 00:14:17,279
people have a misunderstanding but um

409
00:14:22,550 --> 00:14:20,320
why that is so difficult to crack

410
00:14:24,389 --> 00:14:22,560
in terms of combative government is it's

411
00:14:26,069 --> 00:14:24,399
not for some of the more conspiratorial

412
00:14:28,550 --> 00:14:26,079
reasons that i think people think that

413
00:14:30,949 --> 00:14:28,560
there's this men in black cabal there's

414
00:14:33,269 --> 00:14:30,959
this dark secret type thing that they're

415
00:14:35,430 --> 00:14:33,279
hiding the the babazar saucers in the

416
00:14:36,310 --> 00:14:35,440
mountains i've never seen any evidence

417
00:14:38,389 --> 00:14:36,320
for that

418
00:14:40,230 --> 00:14:38,399
so i can't say that that's true

419
00:14:42,230 --> 00:14:40,240
but what there is is there is a lack of

420
00:14:44,470 --> 00:14:42,240
legal framework and policy framework

421
00:14:46,550 --> 00:14:44,480
related to true

422
00:14:48,550 --> 00:14:46,560
unidentified events

423
00:14:51,670 --> 00:14:48,560
and so which the military defense

424
00:14:55,030 --> 00:14:51,680
encounters something that does not fit

425
00:14:56,870 --> 00:14:55,040
into these parameters that they operate

426
00:14:58,470 --> 00:14:56,880
under and and and

427
00:15:00,230 --> 00:14:58,480
to give you an idea

428
00:15:02,150 --> 00:15:00,240
uh the parameters are established when

429
00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:02,160
you're dealing in the defense industry

430
00:15:06,870 --> 00:15:05,120
um they're very stringent i always like

431
00:15:08,949 --> 00:15:06,880
to tell people the story that if you go

432
00:15:10,870 --> 00:15:08,959
out to the national training center

433
00:15:13,590 --> 00:15:10,880
they have these these turtles and this

434
00:15:15,430 --> 00:15:13,600
is big in the early 2000s late 90s they

435
00:15:18,389 --> 00:15:15,440
have these tortoises that are endangered

436
00:15:21,269 --> 00:15:18,399
and so you'll have these entire workups

437
00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:21,279
entire you know division getting ready

438
00:15:24,949 --> 00:15:23,040
to deploy they're out there in tanks

439
00:15:27,269 --> 00:15:24,959
pretending to go into war and somebody

440
00:15:28,870 --> 00:15:27,279
spots a turtle everything stops and some

441
00:15:30,550 --> 00:15:28,880
guy's got to ride in a jeep and come

442
00:15:32,790 --> 00:15:30,560
collect the turtle and so

443
00:15:35,030 --> 00:15:32,800
everything's so controlled and when you

444
00:15:36,150 --> 00:15:35,040
encounter something that doesn't fit

445
00:15:37,189 --> 00:15:36,160
into that

446
00:15:39,590 --> 00:15:37,199
it's

447
00:15:42,470 --> 00:15:39,600
very difficult uh you know how do you

448
00:15:45,749 --> 00:15:42,480
classify it how do you even discuss it

449
00:15:47,350 --> 00:15:45,759
how do you form a policy for it because

450
00:15:49,509 --> 00:15:47,360
in the bureaucratic settings the united

451
00:15:51,430 --> 00:15:49,519
states government it takes ten people to

452
00:15:52,710 --> 00:15:51,440
change your role a toilet paper

453
00:15:54,150 --> 00:15:52,720
because you've got all these policy

454
00:15:55,670 --> 00:15:54,160
analysts he's got to do this like we're

455
00:15:57,030 --> 00:15:55,680
going to step a work study decide if

456
00:15:57,829 --> 00:15:57,040
this toilet paper is better than the

457
00:16:00,230 --> 00:15:57,839
other

458
00:16:01,030 --> 00:16:00,240
and so you don't have that framework

459
00:16:02,550 --> 00:16:01,040
here

460
00:16:04,949 --> 00:16:02,560
and um

461
00:16:06,470 --> 00:16:04,959
i think that allows for

462
00:16:09,189 --> 00:16:06,480
a lot of the

463
00:16:10,870 --> 00:16:09,199
void of information

464
00:16:12,389 --> 00:16:10,880
but the military like say if they were

465
00:16:14,710 --> 00:16:12,399
in a battlefield and something

466
00:16:16,550 --> 00:16:14,720
unexpected cropped up in front of them

467
00:16:18,310 --> 00:16:16,560
they're not going to you know phone back

468
00:16:19,590 --> 00:16:18,320
to the head office and await further

469
00:16:21,189 --> 00:16:19,600
instructions they're going to deal with

470
00:16:23,350 --> 00:16:21,199
that situation if there was you know

471
00:16:25,590 --> 00:16:23,360
some kind of perceived threat

472
00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:25,600
so i'm thinking like of the nimitz case

473
00:16:30,230 --> 00:16:28,320
this is this case back in 2004

474
00:16:32,069 --> 00:16:30,240
where there were these these blips on

475
00:16:33,590 --> 00:16:32,079
the radar that they kept seeing for

476
00:16:35,269 --> 00:16:33,600
several days

477
00:16:37,189 --> 00:16:35,279
and then eventually this whole event

478
00:16:38,949 --> 00:16:37,199
culminated with um sending a jet out

479
00:16:40,150 --> 00:16:38,959
there with commander fravor on board and

480
00:16:42,230 --> 00:16:40,160
he saw this

481
00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:42,240
uh tic-tac-shaped object bouncing around

482
00:16:45,110 --> 00:16:43,680
and then flying off into the distance

483
00:16:47,189 --> 00:16:45,120
and then another pilot went out and took

484
00:16:51,110 --> 00:16:47,199
the video which is the video that we see

485
00:16:53,590 --> 00:16:51,120
at the blurry dot in the distance now

486
00:16:55,509 --> 00:16:53,600
like with the tortoise example uh you've

487
00:16:58,310 --> 00:16:55,519
got like something in a way similar

488
00:16:59,910 --> 00:16:58,320
you've got uh the them seeing these

489
00:17:02,310 --> 00:16:59,920
radar blips

490
00:17:04,309 --> 00:17:02,320
and i think it was gary voorhees one of

491
00:17:05,510 --> 00:17:04,319
the guys there who described them to me

492
00:17:08,390 --> 00:17:05,520
as being

493
00:17:11,189 --> 00:17:08,400
moving slowly south slowly 100 knots

494
00:17:13,189 --> 00:17:11,199
it's just like 150 miles an hour south

495
00:17:14,789 --> 00:17:13,199
at a high altitude which is very slow

496
00:17:16,549 --> 00:17:14,799
for a plane

497
00:17:19,750 --> 00:17:16,559
uh and they did this for several days

498
00:17:21,990 --> 00:17:19,760
and they would just drip south

499
00:17:23,029 --> 00:17:22,000
it that's that seems like

500
00:17:24,710 --> 00:17:23,039
to me

501
00:17:27,429 --> 00:17:24,720
even though it's something that's out of

502
00:17:29,590 --> 00:17:27,439
the realms of the ordinary

503
00:17:31,110 --> 00:17:29,600
isn't the military set up in that if

504
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:31,120
extraordinary things happen they're

505
00:17:35,029 --> 00:17:32,400
trained to

506
00:17:36,470 --> 00:17:35,039
quickly uh decide what to do in that

507
00:17:38,950 --> 00:17:36,480
situation so

508
00:17:40,390 --> 00:17:38,960
why wasn't anything done do you think

509
00:17:42,070 --> 00:17:40,400
back in the the nimitz studies when they

510
00:17:43,510 --> 00:17:42,080
saw these weird radar blips in the

511
00:17:46,070 --> 00:17:43,520
distance

512
00:17:47,430 --> 00:17:46,080
sure and again i can only speculate and

513
00:17:48,950 --> 00:17:47,440
then talk to because i have spoken to

514
00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:48,960
gary and some of the other enlisted

515
00:17:51,830 --> 00:17:50,480
personnel um

516
00:17:53,029 --> 00:17:51,840
some who

517
00:17:54,390 --> 00:17:53,039
don't want to go on the record because

518
00:17:56,070 --> 00:17:54,400
of the possessions that they currently

519
00:17:58,390 --> 00:17:56,080
have but i can describe what they said

520
00:18:00,630 --> 00:17:58,400
to me um

521
00:18:03,430 --> 00:18:00,640
the real answer there is exactly the

522
00:18:05,430 --> 00:18:03,440
turtle example's a great one because

523
00:18:06,710 --> 00:18:05,440
everybody knows what to do when they see

524
00:18:08,549 --> 00:18:06,720
the turtle

525
00:18:10,710 --> 00:18:08,559
they flag it the guy in the jeep comes

526
00:18:12,390 --> 00:18:10,720
everybody pops their their lights and so

527
00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:12,400
everybody's got their ir flares so they

528
00:18:16,310 --> 00:18:14,480
know where each other are they get the

529
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:16,320
turtle to get it out now

530
00:18:21,110 --> 00:18:18,480
in the framework of context of when you

531
00:18:23,190 --> 00:18:21,120
come in contact with something

532
00:18:24,870 --> 00:18:23,200
that literally

533
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:24,880
defies

534
00:18:28,630 --> 00:18:26,640
any type of

535
00:18:30,789 --> 00:18:28,640
you know policy or anything you that

536
00:18:32,310 --> 00:18:30,799
you're prepared for and and that's one

537
00:18:33,510 --> 00:18:32,320
of the things i really stress with all

538
00:18:36,549 --> 00:18:33,520
of this

539
00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:36,559
is i'm happy to be wrong but uh the

540
00:18:39,029 --> 00:18:38,160
totality of evidence that i have here is

541
00:18:41,909 --> 00:18:39,039
that this

542
00:18:44,630 --> 00:18:41,919
this is a complex problem probably more

543
00:18:47,909 --> 00:18:44,640
complex than we give it credit for and

544
00:18:49,270 --> 00:18:47,919
uh i say that because the first thing

545
00:18:51,430 --> 00:18:49,280
when you they first started getting

546
00:18:53,270 --> 00:18:51,440
these radar contacts right you and you

547
00:18:56,150 --> 00:18:53,280
said why didn't they set anybody up i

548
00:18:59,190 --> 00:18:56,160
think they very correctly uh assessed

549
00:19:01,750 --> 00:18:59,200
this that it was a malfunction in in the

550
00:19:04,070 --> 00:19:01,760
in the radar systems and so you had this

551
00:19:06,070 --> 00:19:04,080
by one bravo radar system which was you

552
00:19:07,110 --> 00:19:06,080
know the brand new radar system at the

553
00:19:07,909 --> 00:19:07,120
time

554
00:19:09,110 --> 00:19:07,919
um

555
00:19:10,710 --> 00:19:09,120
and so

556
00:19:11,510 --> 00:19:10,720
i think very correctly they assess that

557
00:19:13,270 --> 00:19:11,520
and go

558
00:19:15,590 --> 00:19:13,280
this doesn't make sense because as you

559
00:19:17,909 --> 00:19:15,600
said some of these radar contacts are

560
00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:17,919
moving at speeds that are inconsistent

561
00:19:21,830 --> 00:19:19,919
with how we define flight

562
00:19:24,390 --> 00:19:21,840
um and

563
00:19:26,310 --> 00:19:24,400
including moving too slow they should be

564
00:19:28,150 --> 00:19:26,320
stalling out unless they're balloons or

565
00:19:30,630 --> 00:19:28,160
something of that nature so the first

566
00:19:33,270 --> 00:19:30,640
thing is this is this is a um this has

567
00:19:35,350 --> 00:19:33,280
got to be a a problem in the system

568
00:19:37,110 --> 00:19:35,360
uh i was very fortunate to speak with

569
00:19:40,070 --> 00:19:37,120
the gentleman who was the electronic

570
00:19:41,990 --> 00:19:40,080
warfare specialist on the uss princeton

571
00:19:43,990 --> 00:19:42,000
uh this is not someone who's come out

572
00:19:46,070 --> 00:19:44,000
publicly it relates to the position that

573
00:19:48,230 --> 00:19:46,080
he holds right now and and i understand

574
00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:48,240
that respect that why he wouldn't but uh

575
00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:50,000
he had a great position in here because

576
00:19:52,390 --> 00:19:51,200
he

577
00:19:53,830 --> 00:19:52,400
even i i

578
00:19:56,870 --> 00:19:53,840
people should realize it's not like i

579
00:19:59,510 --> 00:19:56,880
came into this believer camp i

580
00:20:01,590 --> 00:19:59,520
i wrote the the article with t.d barnes

581
00:20:03,909 --> 00:20:01,600
from area 51 and gene petit the

582
00:20:06,230 --> 00:20:03,919
grandfather of electronic warfare i

583
00:20:08,310 --> 00:20:06,240
interviewed them and said can this be

584
00:20:10,390 --> 00:20:08,320
electronic warfare and so i always went

585
00:20:11,430 --> 00:20:10,400
down that route i never went down as

586
00:20:12,549 --> 00:20:11,440
aliens

587
00:20:14,070 --> 00:20:12,559
um

588
00:20:15,669 --> 00:20:14,080
and so the first thought is could this

589
00:20:18,230 --> 00:20:15,679
be it now this the gentleman i

590
00:20:20,470 --> 00:20:18,240
interviewed is is the guy who would know

591
00:20:21,270 --> 00:20:20,480
in terms of electronic warfare

592
00:20:22,870 --> 00:20:21,280
um

593
00:20:24,950 --> 00:20:22,880
and he pointed out something that i

594
00:20:26,390 --> 00:20:24,960
don't think uh has been talked about or

595
00:20:28,310 --> 00:20:26,400
discussed and that was that it wasn't

596
00:20:29,590 --> 00:20:28,320
just the spy one bravo radar that picked

597
00:20:32,390 --> 00:20:29,600
these things up they took the spyware

598
00:20:34,789 --> 00:20:32,400
and bravo down they put up the sps-49

599
00:20:37,510 --> 00:20:34,799
and the sps-48 so the the previous

600
00:20:40,549 --> 00:20:37,520
iterations of these radar systems

601
00:20:42,470 --> 00:20:40,559
and they continued to get the tracks so

602
00:20:43,909 --> 00:20:42,480
in terms of those first couple of days i

603
00:20:45,830 --> 00:20:43,919
think they went through all the checks

604
00:20:47,909 --> 00:20:45,840
and balances you would see because the

605
00:20:50,310 --> 00:20:47,919
performances and characteristics they

606
00:20:53,350 --> 00:20:50,320
were picking up it was inconsistent with

607
00:20:55,750 --> 00:20:53,360
aircraft and uh

608
00:20:57,110 --> 00:20:55,760
really anything engaged in flight

609
00:20:59,590 --> 00:20:57,120
and so

610
00:21:00,390 --> 00:20:59,600
of course if you're getting that i think

611
00:21:04,870 --> 00:21:00,400
none

612
00:21:07,350 --> 00:21:04,880
would not be well guys we've got them we

613
00:21:09,190 --> 00:21:07,360
got the aliens let's launch the crew

614
00:21:10,470 --> 00:21:09,200
uh it would be

615
00:21:12,230 --> 00:21:10,480
ah there's gotta be a mistake in the

616
00:21:14,149 --> 00:21:12,240
system what's going on here and so they

617
00:21:16,950 --> 00:21:14,159
went through those kind of

618
00:21:18,789 --> 00:21:16,960
checks and balances with with how do you

619
00:21:20,789 --> 00:21:18,799
assess is this something that we're

620
00:21:24,230 --> 00:21:20,799
really tangibly getting

621
00:21:27,190 --> 00:21:24,240
um and it and again it kind of

622
00:21:29,430 --> 00:21:27,200
falls into this weird realm where it's

623
00:21:31,270 --> 00:21:29,440
outside the box and so even what they

624
00:21:32,870 --> 00:21:31,280
were recording

625
00:21:34,470 --> 00:21:32,880
it's this

626
00:21:36,390 --> 00:21:34,480
something i'll tell you that i've heard

627
00:21:37,830 --> 00:21:36,400
with um

628
00:21:39,510 --> 00:21:37,840
all of these witnesses is something

629
00:21:40,870 --> 00:21:39,520
they've struggled with

630
00:21:43,190 --> 00:21:40,880
that is

631
00:21:46,549 --> 00:21:43,200
this is not real

632
00:21:48,950 --> 00:21:46,559
because it's not in our reality

633
00:21:51,110 --> 00:21:48,960
i observed it

634
00:21:53,590 --> 00:21:51,120
and so it was really in front of me and

635
00:21:55,110 --> 00:21:53,600
so there's this weird struggle and i i

636
00:21:57,430 --> 00:21:55,120
can't stress that enough because when i

637
00:21:59,190 --> 00:21:57,440
said it a lot of the

638
00:22:01,669 --> 00:21:59,200
stuff i did towards perception of people

639
00:22:03,669 --> 00:22:01,679
that had interviewed i had had witnessed

640
00:22:06,310 --> 00:22:03,679
strange things like that

641
00:22:07,190 --> 00:22:06,320
people who have witnessed something

642
00:22:11,430 --> 00:22:07,200
that

643
00:22:14,390 --> 00:22:11,440
how they define reality there's a

644
00:22:17,190 --> 00:22:14,400
noticeable behavioral

645
00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:17,200
effect on them and i was a certified

646
00:22:20,149 --> 00:22:18,720
criminal investigative

647
00:22:21,830 --> 00:22:20,159
analyst which is a really pretty way of

648
00:22:23,669 --> 00:22:21,840
saying profiler now because the term

649
00:22:25,750 --> 00:22:23,679
profiling and policing has a negative

650
00:22:27,750 --> 00:22:25,760
connotation for good reason

651
00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:27,760
and so i was able to develop a

652
00:22:32,870 --> 00:22:30,320
profile of people who had encountered

653
00:22:35,270 --> 00:22:32,880
something i believe

654
00:22:36,390 --> 00:22:35,280
they perceive to shatter their kind of

655
00:22:38,630 --> 00:22:36,400
reality

656
00:22:39,990 --> 00:22:38,640
and part of that is shame and that's the

657
00:22:42,149 --> 00:22:40,000
best way i can describe it and so

658
00:22:44,710 --> 00:22:42,159
there's this really weird shameful kind

659
00:22:47,110 --> 00:22:44,720
of attitude to say

660
00:22:49,590 --> 00:22:47,120
i've just seen something that's not real

661
00:22:50,870 --> 00:22:49,600
but yet it really happened and so i

662
00:22:52,549 --> 00:22:50,880
think that

663
00:22:54,950 --> 00:22:52,559
you see that go across all the way to

664
00:22:58,630 --> 00:22:54,960
the top there this idea it's not real

665
00:23:03,190 --> 00:23:01,590
to dismiss it for for a good part

666
00:23:04,470 --> 00:23:03,200
initially

667
00:23:05,830 --> 00:23:04,480
i think that

668
00:23:07,270 --> 00:23:05,840
a lot of the work that you've done with

669
00:23:09,590 --> 00:23:07,280
conspiracy theories i think he would

670
00:23:12,549 --> 00:23:09,600
agree with me conspiracy theories

671
00:23:15,270 --> 00:23:12,559
exist because the brain hates confusion

672
00:23:16,950 --> 00:23:15,280
it hates lack of information and

673
00:23:19,430 --> 00:23:16,960
uh

674
00:23:21,669 --> 00:23:19,440
they liked it simple problems yeah i

675
00:23:23,909 --> 00:23:21,679
kind of agree with uh with that that the

676
00:23:25,990 --> 00:23:23,919
if you have an explanation for something

677
00:23:28,390 --> 00:23:26,000
is better than having no explanation and

678
00:23:30,470 --> 00:23:28,400
the thing i kind of started out writing

679
00:23:33,029 --> 00:23:30,480
about many many years ago was a thing

680
00:23:34,149 --> 00:23:33,039
called morgellons disease where people

681
00:23:36,149 --> 00:23:34,159
uh

682
00:23:38,070 --> 00:23:36,159
they were ill and that they had the you

683
00:23:40,230 --> 00:23:38,080
know various malaises

684
00:23:41,830 --> 00:23:40,240
and they had various symptoms like

685
00:23:43,430 --> 00:23:41,840
itching and things like that and they

686
00:23:45,190 --> 00:23:43,440
did the doctors didn't know what it was

687
00:23:46,230 --> 00:23:45,200
it was an idiopathic disease meaning

688
00:23:47,430 --> 00:23:46,240
they don't know what it is and it

689
00:23:48,630 --> 00:23:47,440
happens all the time you get these

690
00:23:50,230 --> 00:23:48,640
idiopathic

691
00:23:52,230 --> 00:23:50,240
diseases and they just send you home

692
00:23:53,669 --> 00:23:52,240
with some some itch cream

693
00:23:55,750 --> 00:23:53,679
uh but people want to have an

694
00:23:57,430 --> 00:23:55,760
explanation and so when this explanation

695
00:23:59,430 --> 00:23:57,440
of morgellons disease which sounds like

696
00:24:01,510 --> 00:23:59,440
this really amazing thing where these

697
00:24:02,870 --> 00:24:01,520
little i don't know nano robots or

698
00:24:06,470 --> 00:24:02,880
something or fibers come out of your

699
00:24:08,390 --> 00:24:06,480
skin uh they they take that explanation

700
00:24:11,909 --> 00:24:08,400
because it explains everything

701
00:24:13,590 --> 00:24:11,919
and with this nimitz thing i guess there

702
00:24:15,269 --> 00:24:13,600
there's two ways of looking at it in a

703
00:24:17,029 --> 00:24:15,279
way there's there's the way like people

704
00:24:18,710 --> 00:24:17,039
want to have

705
00:24:20,149 --> 00:24:18,720
a straightforward explanation that fits

706
00:24:22,070 --> 00:24:20,159
their world view so they want to say oh

707
00:24:23,750 --> 00:24:22,080
it's just radar glitches or it's uh you

708
00:24:25,669 --> 00:24:23,760
know it's just like the the navy was

709
00:24:27,510 --> 00:24:25,679
testing a drone or something like that

710
00:24:29,750 --> 00:24:27,520
it's not nothing important

711
00:24:32,070 --> 00:24:29,760
or they might think that they you know

712
00:24:35,029 --> 00:24:32,080
maybe it's aliens maybe for some people

713
00:24:36,630 --> 00:24:35,039
that explanation makes more sense than

714
00:24:37,909 --> 00:24:36,640
the other explanations and they they

715
00:24:39,590 --> 00:24:37,919
prefer

716
00:24:40,549 --> 00:24:39,600
that but getting back to what you were

717
00:24:42,630 --> 00:24:40,559
saying

718
00:24:45,190 --> 00:24:42,640
earlier though about

719
00:24:48,230 --> 00:24:45,200
you know the going right to the top

720
00:24:49,990 --> 00:24:48,240
uh people wanting it not uh to be in you

721
00:24:51,669 --> 00:24:50,000
know they don't know what it is

722
00:24:53,190 --> 00:24:51,679
it almost seems like

723
00:24:55,590 --> 00:24:53,200
you're almost describing some kind of

724
00:24:56,470 --> 00:24:55,600
mass psychogenic delusion where people

725
00:24:58,950 --> 00:24:56,480
are

726
00:25:00,390 --> 00:24:58,960
sweeping these radar returns under the

727
00:25:01,909 --> 00:25:00,400
under the road

728
00:25:03,669 --> 00:25:01,919
if you if they're getting consistent

729
00:25:06,070 --> 00:25:03,679
radar returns

730
00:25:07,909 --> 00:25:06,080
of something that's flying at 100 miles

731
00:25:09,269 --> 00:25:07,919
per hour to the south 100 knots to the

732
00:25:10,630 --> 00:25:09,279
south

733
00:25:12,549 --> 00:25:10,640
and then they get it on a different

734
00:25:14,630 --> 00:25:12,559
radar system

735
00:25:16,789 --> 00:25:14,640
isn't it at that point they're gonna

736
00:25:18,230 --> 00:25:16,799
actually take it seriously

737
00:25:20,070 --> 00:25:18,240
i mean is that what happened did they do

738
00:25:23,110 --> 00:25:20,080
it at that point

739
00:25:24,789 --> 00:25:23,120
well uh you know no i uh

740
00:25:26,830 --> 00:25:24,799
there's a second factor here that would

741
00:25:30,630 --> 00:25:26,840
also have been involved

742
00:25:32,549 --> 00:25:30,640
um and i understand that the guys uh

743
00:25:34,710 --> 00:25:32,559
you know gary and the enlisted witnesses

744
00:25:36,470 --> 00:25:34,720
you've spoken to probably haven't spoken

745
00:25:38,230 --> 00:25:36,480
to this because it does involve some

746
00:25:39,750 --> 00:25:38,240
classified stuff although everything

747
00:25:41,510 --> 00:25:39,760
that i know and say i don't hold a

748
00:25:43,830 --> 00:25:41,520
security classification and so this is

749
00:25:45,990 --> 00:25:43,840
all public information but i understand

750
00:25:47,750 --> 00:25:46,000
their hesitation to discuss these type

751
00:25:50,390 --> 00:25:47,760
of things but the area that they were

752
00:25:52,230 --> 00:25:50,400
operating under uh there's particularly

753
00:25:54,549 --> 00:25:52,240
two islands that are right nearby there

754
00:25:57,269 --> 00:25:54,559
san clemente and san nicolas

755
00:25:59,590 --> 00:25:57,279
these are the

756
00:26:01,990 --> 00:25:59,600
you know area 51 is a tourist attraction

757
00:26:02,950 --> 00:26:02,000
these are the spots and so

758
00:26:04,230 --> 00:26:02,960
um

759
00:26:05,669 --> 00:26:04,240
in particular

760
00:26:07,510 --> 00:26:05,679
i do know for a fact because i spoke

761
00:26:11,029 --> 00:26:07,520
with actually legal affairs from naval

762
00:26:13,350 --> 00:26:11,039
base coronado um about what san clemente

763
00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:13,360
could have or didn't have

764
00:26:17,590 --> 00:26:15,840
tracking on these things because

765
00:26:21,750 --> 00:26:17,600
they were able to tell me very limited

766
00:26:24,310 --> 00:26:21,760
information which was that in in 2004

767
00:26:26,390 --> 00:26:24,320
the fleet area command that was in that

768
00:26:28,230 --> 00:26:26,400
region has the ability to monitor air

769
00:26:31,029 --> 00:26:28,240
space for approximately

770
00:26:33,510 --> 00:26:31,039
this off time ahead but roughly 156 000

771
00:26:36,789 --> 00:26:33,520
square nautical miles

772
00:26:39,590 --> 00:26:36,799
of winch 2936

773
00:26:42,630 --> 00:26:39,600
square nautical miles they could view

774
00:26:44,950 --> 00:26:42,640
uh three-dimensional uh

775
00:26:47,830 --> 00:26:44,960
a three dimensions of the airspace both

776
00:26:49,350 --> 00:26:47,840
below and above the ocean surface up to

777
00:26:50,549 --> 00:26:49,360
eighty thousand feet

778
00:26:54,070 --> 00:26:50,559
and so

779
00:26:56,870 --> 00:26:54,080
there was communication when i asked uh

780
00:26:58,870 --> 00:26:56,880
was fleet area control command involved

781
00:27:01,269 --> 00:26:58,880
with the nimitz and

782
00:27:03,669 --> 00:27:01,279
i was simply told um

783
00:27:06,070 --> 00:27:03,679
for classified reasons a fleet area

784
00:27:08,070 --> 00:27:06,080
control command does have control of the

785
00:27:10,470 --> 00:27:08,080
airspace and and what is operating

786
00:27:12,710 --> 00:27:10,480
inside

787
00:27:15,190 --> 00:27:12,720
the socal training range

788
00:27:17,909 --> 00:27:15,200
um beyond that and they were in

789
00:27:21,029 --> 00:27:17,919
communicator with the nimitz carrier

790
00:27:22,870 --> 00:27:21,039
group and csg11

791
00:27:24,310 --> 00:27:22,880
beyond the department of defense's

792
00:27:26,389 --> 00:27:24,320
unidentified

793
00:27:28,549 --> 00:27:26,399
designation there's nothing else they

794
00:27:30,389 --> 00:27:28,559
can say and i think that goes into kind

795
00:27:31,669 --> 00:27:30,399
of what we talked about that vacuum of

796
00:27:33,830 --> 00:27:31,679
where

797
00:27:36,630 --> 00:27:33,840
them being able to give more information

798
00:27:39,350 --> 00:27:36,640
was what led to that basis

799
00:27:41,029 --> 00:27:39,360
it it's going to involve highly cla i

800
00:27:42,230 --> 00:27:41,039
mean you just think about it if they can

801
00:27:44,389 --> 00:27:42,240
tell me that they can see three

802
00:27:45,510 --> 00:27:44,399
dimensions and 80 000 feet above and

803
00:27:48,070 --> 00:27:45,520
below

804
00:27:49,110 --> 00:27:48,080
what the heck can't they talk about and

805
00:27:51,669 --> 00:27:49,120
so

806
00:27:53,750 --> 00:27:51,679
um you have well i mean i think that

807
00:27:55,669 --> 00:27:53,760
three dimensions 80 000 feet just means

808
00:27:57,350 --> 00:27:55,679
that they can place things by the the

809
00:27:59,830 --> 00:27:57,360
various radar systems it doesn't mean

810
00:28:00,950 --> 00:27:59,840
that they've got a a big 3d model of

811
00:28:02,950 --> 00:28:00,960
everything that

812
00:28:04,389 --> 00:28:02,960
gives you very high resolution i mean

813
00:28:06,070 --> 00:28:04,399
you can understand

814
00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:06,080
you know that the spy one radar is this

815
00:28:09,669 --> 00:28:07,840
directed beam radar thing and it has

816
00:28:11,669 --> 00:28:09,679
lots of different beams and it can you

817
00:28:13,430 --> 00:28:11,679
can identify things in 3d space so i

818
00:28:15,029 --> 00:28:13,440
think that kind of the way you described

819
00:28:16,870 --> 00:28:15,039
it makes it sound a bit more impressive

820
00:28:19,110 --> 00:28:16,880
than it is i'm sure the military has

821
00:28:21,029 --> 00:28:19,120
extremely good technology but they don't

822
00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:21,039
have like a detailed 3d model it's not

823
00:28:25,190 --> 00:28:22,480
like they can go into google earth in

824
00:28:26,789 --> 00:28:25,200
real time and and see the ships uh as

825
00:28:28,710 --> 00:28:26,799
they actually are

826
00:28:30,389 --> 00:28:28,720
in real time but they can they can give

827
00:28:32,070 --> 00:28:30,399
positions of things

828
00:28:34,310 --> 00:28:32,080
3d space

829
00:28:36,070 --> 00:28:34,320
sure well yeah and

830
00:28:39,590 --> 00:28:36,080
i appreciate you clearing clearing that

831
00:28:41,430 --> 00:28:39,600
up they they said well kind of

832
00:28:43,830 --> 00:28:41,440
i'm technical in that i understand 3d

833
00:28:44,470 --> 00:28:43,840
space and i have a basic understanding

834
00:28:45,830 --> 00:28:44,480
of

835
00:28:48,310 --> 00:28:45,840
radar and things like that but obviously

836
00:28:50,710 --> 00:28:48,320
i've never used radar and so people will

837
00:28:52,549 --> 00:28:50,720
uh people will sometimes jump upon me on

838
00:28:54,149 --> 00:28:52,559
twitter and uh reel off a list of

839
00:28:55,909 --> 00:28:54,159
acronyms and said have you ever done the

840
00:28:57,110 --> 00:28:55,919
blah blah blah blah blah and i go no i

841
00:28:59,029 --> 00:28:57,120
haven't but

842
00:29:00,549 --> 00:28:59,039
uh i understand

843
00:29:03,029 --> 00:29:00,559
you know what uh

844
00:29:06,310 --> 00:29:03,039
uh i might basically justify that too i

845
00:29:09,269 --> 00:29:06,320
apologize nick no no it's it wasn't yeah

846
00:29:11,190 --> 00:29:09,279
anyway but uh so this this these these

847
00:29:13,510 --> 00:29:11,200
secret bases not secret bases but these

848
00:29:15,350 --> 00:29:13,520
uh these highly secure classified et

849
00:29:17,590 --> 00:29:15,360
cetera bases that you that you talk to

850
00:29:19,830 --> 00:29:17,600
people from would they even were they

851
00:29:23,110 --> 00:29:19,840
even able to tell you if they had a

852
00:29:24,870 --> 00:29:23,120
contact with an object

853
00:29:27,190 --> 00:29:24,880
they said beyond the government's

854
00:29:28,230 --> 00:29:27,200
unidentified classification

855
00:29:29,029 --> 00:29:28,240
that is it

856
00:29:31,190 --> 00:29:29,039
um

857
00:29:33,990 --> 00:29:31,200
so that's basically nothing really i

858
00:29:36,070 --> 00:29:34,000
mean they they it's not very you can't

859
00:29:37,669 --> 00:29:36,080
you if they told you nothing at all it's

860
00:29:38,789 --> 00:29:37,679
just the same thing as them telling you

861
00:29:42,149 --> 00:29:38,799
what they told you because they're just

862
00:29:47,110 --> 00:29:44,789
correct other than and you're right and

863
00:29:50,070 --> 00:29:47,120
you're right that gets into kind of uh

864
00:29:52,830 --> 00:29:50,080
trying to interpret that statement

865
00:29:56,549 --> 00:29:52,840
i will say in examining what they said

866
00:29:58,549 --> 00:29:56,559
their again this is just opinion um

867
00:30:01,510 --> 00:29:58,559
what they were trying to get at is we

868
00:30:03,510 --> 00:30:01,520
have some of the top-notch stuff around

869
00:30:05,190 --> 00:30:03,520
and that this top-notch stuff would have

870
00:30:08,230 --> 00:30:05,200
been involved in

871
00:30:09,909 --> 00:30:08,240
maybe not the initial analysis of these

872
00:30:11,990 --> 00:30:09,919
events going on during the time but

873
00:30:14,070 --> 00:30:12,000
later analysis and we can get into that

874
00:30:15,990 --> 00:30:14,080
later if you'd like but um

875
00:30:18,710 --> 00:30:16,000
kind of striking to that initial point

876
00:30:20,470 --> 00:30:18,720
why wasn't it treated more seriously

877
00:30:21,430 --> 00:30:20,480
right um

878
00:30:41,590 --> 00:30:21,440
i

879
00:30:53,830 --> 00:30:41,600
a

880
00:30:55,990 --> 00:30:53,840
um

881
00:30:58,389 --> 00:30:56,000
and this is where i come with that and

882
00:31:00,950 --> 00:30:58,399
and it is uh in speaking to commander

883
00:31:02,870 --> 00:31:00,960
fravor's uh wing woman and i think she's

884
00:31:04,710 --> 00:31:02,880
only spoke once and that was on the

885
00:31:05,590 --> 00:31:04,720
unidentified television show to my

886
00:31:07,590 --> 00:31:05,600
knowledge

887
00:31:09,509 --> 00:31:07,600
i was very fortunate to be able to speak

888
00:31:13,269 --> 00:31:09,519
with her um

889
00:31:14,310 --> 00:31:13,279
and she told me something that um

890
00:31:31,669 --> 00:31:14,320
i

891
00:31:34,549 --> 00:31:31,679
and

892
00:31:36,470 --> 00:31:34,559
i think uh she has said in the in the

893
00:31:38,549 --> 00:31:36,480
few interview or the one interview she

894
00:31:40,710 --> 00:31:38,559
did talking about the fear

895
00:31:43,269 --> 00:31:40,720
factor of when she saw it

896
00:31:45,509 --> 00:31:43,279
she elaborated to me where that fear

897
00:31:48,870 --> 00:31:45,519
factor came from and just to give you

898
00:31:50,310 --> 00:31:48,880
some basis uh for me and in term when

899
00:31:53,110 --> 00:31:50,320
trying to determine

900
00:31:54,230 --> 00:31:53,120
factual credible statements and what

901
00:31:55,269 --> 00:31:54,240
could be

902
00:31:57,430 --> 00:31:55,279
um

903
00:31:58,950 --> 00:31:57,440
it could be deterioration due to memory

904
00:32:00,389 --> 00:31:58,960
fallibility

905
00:32:02,470 --> 00:32:00,399
one of the things i do and now i'm going

906
00:32:03,669 --> 00:32:02,480
to tip it off here and now gary and all

907
00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:03,679
these people i've talked to are going to

908
00:32:07,909 --> 00:32:05,840
go aha that's what he was doing

909
00:32:10,549 --> 00:32:07,919
but as a trained

910
00:32:11,750 --> 00:32:10,559
interrogator an interviewer

911
00:32:14,310 --> 00:32:11,760
one of the things you do is you do try

912
00:32:15,590 --> 00:32:14,320
to elicit the emotions that went on

913
00:32:18,470 --> 00:32:15,600
during the time

914
00:32:19,990 --> 00:32:18,480
because emotions help draw back better

915
00:32:21,430 --> 00:32:20,000
memories though they can distort

916
00:32:23,990 --> 00:32:21,440
memories and where you see if there's a

917
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:24,000
traumatic event people will repress

918
00:32:28,310 --> 00:32:26,159
memories but if you if you start the

919
00:32:29,990 --> 00:32:28,320
stage by saying how did you feel then

920
00:32:31,430 --> 00:32:30,000
you know what did you what was going on

921
00:32:34,070 --> 00:32:31,440
and in her case

922
00:32:35,269 --> 00:32:34,080
she had expressed on the tv show she was

923
00:32:37,029 --> 00:32:35,279
frightened

924
00:32:38,549 --> 00:32:37,039
and um

925
00:32:40,310 --> 00:32:38,559
i'm going to be

926
00:32:41,190 --> 00:32:40,320
going to be very cautious and respect

927
00:32:43,029 --> 00:32:41,200
her

928
00:32:44,870 --> 00:32:43,039
because she i understand the reason she

929
00:32:46,710 --> 00:32:44,880
she doesn't want to step forward but i i

930
00:32:47,830 --> 00:32:46,720
do want to make sure that i will make

931
00:32:49,590 --> 00:32:47,840
this point clear because i think she

932
00:32:52,149 --> 00:32:49,600
deserves it is that

933
00:32:54,870 --> 00:32:52,159
the accounts being given by this pilot

934
00:32:57,029 --> 00:32:54,880
today you know years later compared to

935
00:33:00,070 --> 00:32:57,039
the pilot that was there then

936
00:33:01,590 --> 00:33:00,080
is a much different pilot and i mean

937
00:33:04,470 --> 00:33:01,600
experienced

938
00:33:05,430 --> 00:33:04,480
and this is a highly accomplished pilot

939
00:33:08,630 --> 00:33:05,440
that i

940
00:33:10,789 --> 00:33:08,640
uh have tremendous respect for and and

941
00:33:12,870 --> 00:33:10,799
truly do hope when the day arrives that

942
00:33:15,830 --> 00:33:12,880
she's maybe able to come out and reveal

943
00:33:17,909 --> 00:33:15,840
herself she does because um

944
00:33:19,750 --> 00:33:17,919
not knocking commander fravor or anybody

945
00:33:20,950 --> 00:33:19,760
but i'll just say this this was a woman

946
00:33:24,549 --> 00:33:20,960
who spent

947
00:33:27,269 --> 00:33:24,559
not only as an as a pilot an f-18 pilot

948
00:33:29,110 --> 00:33:27,279
she spent 18 18 months with boots on the

949
00:33:31,590 --> 00:33:29,120
ground in afghanistan in an exchange

950
00:33:33,350 --> 00:33:31,600
program of the army so i mean this is a

951
00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:33,360
tough woman and so i was very impressed

952
00:33:36,830 --> 00:33:34,720
by what she had to say but when she

953
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:36,840
relived the

954
00:33:42,950 --> 00:33:39,760
concern that really set her off

955
00:33:46,149 --> 00:33:42,960
it was actually when they first observed

956
00:33:47,350 --> 00:33:46,159
the object hovering above the ocean and

957
00:33:49,509 --> 00:33:47,360
so this is the part that i don't think

958
00:33:51,190 --> 00:33:49,519
favorite flavor i believe has said it

959
00:33:52,789 --> 00:33:51,200
was like a ping-pong ball bouncing

960
00:33:54,789 --> 00:33:52,799
around

961
00:33:57,909 --> 00:33:54,799
what she told me was a little more

962
00:34:00,149 --> 00:33:57,919
dramatic and that's what unnerved her

963
00:34:02,630 --> 00:34:00,159
was that this thing is exactly what i

964
00:34:06,070 --> 00:34:02,640
think we kind of briefly talked about is

965
00:34:08,230 --> 00:34:06,080
it was moving in instantaneous

966
00:34:10,310 --> 00:34:08,240
acute angles

967
00:34:11,470 --> 00:34:10,320
of truce angles

968
00:34:15,270 --> 00:34:11,480
um

969
00:34:18,310 --> 00:34:15,280
inconsistent with how we define flight

970
00:34:20,629 --> 00:34:18,320
and so this thing was was moving

971
00:34:22,069 --> 00:34:20,639
i like to say a bucket of minnows that's

972
00:34:23,990 --> 00:34:22,079
that's not and she didn't see any

973
00:34:24,869 --> 00:34:24,000
control surfaces so the moment you saw

974
00:34:26,310 --> 00:34:24,879
that

975
00:34:27,990 --> 00:34:26,320
um

976
00:34:29,589 --> 00:34:28,000
she realized

977
00:34:31,190 --> 00:34:29,599
one point that i've tried to make to

978
00:34:33,349 --> 00:34:31,200
people a lot is that it is erroneous to

979
00:34:36,069 --> 00:34:33,359
call these ufos as unidentified flying

980
00:34:37,750 --> 00:34:36,079
objects these true really bizarre cases

981
00:34:40,069 --> 00:34:37,760
ladies and gentlemen they're not flying

982
00:34:42,950 --> 00:34:40,079
by how we define flight

983
00:34:45,669 --> 00:34:42,960
they're not engaged in lift and thrust

984
00:34:47,750 --> 00:34:45,679
they lack the control surfaces they lack

985
00:34:49,190 --> 00:34:47,760
the angle of attack they lack the

986
00:34:50,149 --> 00:34:49,200
airfoil

987
00:34:53,109 --> 00:34:50,159
and

988
00:34:56,310 --> 00:34:53,119
they are not performing consistent with

989
00:34:57,990 --> 00:34:56,320
what objects that have consistent mass

990
00:35:00,390 --> 00:34:58,000
do they're not influenced by that so

991
00:35:02,550 --> 00:35:00,400
that was the initial thing that really

992
00:35:04,069 --> 00:35:02,560
struck her and unnerved her because i

993
00:35:05,270 --> 00:35:04,079
think in her interview she says you know

994
00:35:07,670 --> 00:35:05,280
when commander fred was like i'm going

995
00:35:09,430 --> 00:35:07,680
to chase it she's like have at it dude

996
00:35:10,390 --> 00:35:09,440
because this thing is not moving like

997
00:35:14,470 --> 00:35:10,400
that

998
00:35:16,870 --> 00:35:14,480
intriguing there

999
00:35:17,910 --> 00:35:16,880
later on and these are all independent

1000
00:35:20,150 --> 00:35:17,920
um

1001
00:35:22,230 --> 00:35:20,160
later on when i i spoke

1002
00:35:23,109 --> 00:35:22,240
to gary voorhees which i think he spoke

1003
00:35:24,310 --> 00:35:23,119
to you

1004
00:35:26,310 --> 00:35:24,320
um

1005
00:35:28,470 --> 00:35:26,320
you know and he may have mentioned that

1006
00:35:30,710 --> 00:35:28,480
going up to like the smoke deck where

1007
00:35:31,589 --> 00:35:30,720
this was kind of this fun habit they

1008
00:35:33,670 --> 00:35:31,599
would do

1009
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:33,680
see them on radar learn the bearing and

1010
00:35:37,109 --> 00:35:35,760
the heading run up to the big eyes

1011
00:35:39,349 --> 00:35:37,119
binoculars

1012
00:35:42,870 --> 00:35:39,359
and they would see these things doing

1013
00:35:44,630 --> 00:35:42,880
exactly what she described in which is

1014
00:35:45,910 --> 00:35:44,640
instantaneous

1015
00:35:48,470 --> 00:35:45,920
movement

1016
00:35:50,390 --> 00:35:48,480
that doesn't seem to be affected by

1017
00:35:52,390 --> 00:35:50,400
objects with constant mass they're not

1018
00:35:53,589 --> 00:35:52,400
influenced by this

1019
00:35:55,829 --> 00:35:53,599
um

1020
00:35:57,349 --> 00:35:55,839
when i spoke to the naval air weapons

1021
00:35:58,630 --> 00:35:57,359
systems

1022
00:36:01,109 --> 00:35:58,640
electronic

1023
00:36:02,470 --> 00:36:01,119
weapon systems uh

1024
00:36:05,349 --> 00:36:02,480
operator

1025
00:36:06,790 --> 00:36:05,359
he described the same thing and this is

1026
00:36:08,230 --> 00:36:06,800
the and i try to make sure that all of

1027
00:36:10,310 --> 00:36:08,240
these interviews were on different

1028
00:36:11,190 --> 00:36:10,320
independent months apart you know some

1029
00:36:13,750 --> 00:36:11,200
of them

1030
00:36:15,270 --> 00:36:13,760
haven't wanted to come forward so

1031
00:36:17,670 --> 00:36:15,280
you do have to kind of weigh this thing

1032
00:36:19,670 --> 00:36:17,680
where are they playing off of each other

1033
00:36:21,910 --> 00:36:19,680
but in this case they all kept

1034
00:36:23,430 --> 00:36:21,920
describing the same thing

1035
00:36:26,470 --> 00:36:23,440
it is

1036
00:36:29,589 --> 00:36:26,480
something that's moving

1037
00:36:32,470 --> 00:36:29,599
rapidly in acute angles that is

1038
00:36:34,630 --> 00:36:32,480
inconsistent with how we define flight

1039
00:36:36,470 --> 00:36:34,640
uh chad underwood which unfortunately

1040
00:36:37,589 --> 00:36:36,480
and i mentioned to you this off camera i

1041
00:36:39,030 --> 00:36:37,599
want to make sure i didn't think that i

1042
00:36:41,589 --> 00:36:39,040
had this from me because had he been

1043
00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:41,599
able to get me a statement um

1044
00:36:44,150 --> 00:36:42,960
in time

1045
00:36:45,270 --> 00:36:44,160
we would have i would have given it to

1046
00:36:49,030 --> 00:36:45,280
you and we could have discussed it here

1047
00:36:51,589 --> 00:36:49,040
unfortunately uh i think chad just um

1048
00:36:52,950 --> 00:36:51,599
life and everything he was unable to but

1049
00:36:55,670 --> 00:36:52,960
he may still

1050
00:36:57,589 --> 00:36:55,680
provide a specific statement but uh you

1051
00:36:59,990 --> 00:36:57,599
pointed this out in our private

1052
00:37:02,470 --> 00:37:00,000
discussions that he described in his his

1053
00:37:03,910 --> 00:37:02,480
one known interview and you may have in

1054
00:37:05,589 --> 00:37:03,920
front of you

1055
00:37:07,190 --> 00:37:05,599
the the what we don't see in these

1056
00:37:08,950 --> 00:37:07,200
little brief clips

1057
00:37:11,550 --> 00:37:08,960
was this

1058
00:37:15,030 --> 00:37:11,560
bizarre erratic

1059
00:37:16,230 --> 00:37:15,040
instantaneous weird movements and ankles

1060
00:37:20,150 --> 00:37:16,240
and everything

1061
00:37:22,710 --> 00:37:20,160
so this strange pattern emerged

1062
00:37:25,510 --> 00:37:22,720
where you're not describing

1063
00:37:28,390 --> 00:37:25,520
something engaged in flight

1064
00:37:30,069 --> 00:37:28,400
and that i'm aware of because it's not

1065
00:37:31,910 --> 00:37:30,079
being bound and you mentioned that i

1066
00:37:33,910 --> 00:37:31,920
think that's very very important

1067
00:37:36,630 --> 00:37:33,920
you said but everything's

1068
00:37:37,670 --> 00:37:36,640
bound by the laws of physics i agree

1069
00:37:40,710 --> 00:37:37,680
and so

1070
00:37:42,230 --> 00:37:40,720
what are we talking about here obviously

1071
00:37:44,550 --> 00:37:42,240
there are

1072
00:37:46,230 --> 00:37:44,560
a lot of things that aren't aliens uh

1073
00:37:47,829 --> 00:37:46,240
holograms and you would probably know

1074
00:37:50,230 --> 00:37:47,839
this better to me but i believe that

1075
00:37:52,790 --> 00:37:50,240
there's a posit there's a potential you

1076
00:37:54,790 --> 00:37:52,800
could somehow use a hologram to do

1077
00:37:56,630 --> 00:37:54,800
something like this

1078
00:37:58,150 --> 00:37:56,640
radar no not really i don't think

1079
00:38:00,069 --> 00:37:58,160
conventional physics would allow for a

1080
00:38:01,750 --> 00:38:00,079
hologram in

1081
00:38:04,390 --> 00:38:01,760
broad daylight which would actually do

1082
00:38:06,390 --> 00:38:04,400
that because you can't project darkness

1083
00:38:07,990 --> 00:38:06,400
and opacity you can project light

1084
00:38:09,190 --> 00:38:08,000
essentially so

1085
00:38:10,950 --> 00:38:09,200
it's uh

1086
00:38:13,589 --> 00:38:10,960
seems seems unlikely

1087
00:38:14,630 --> 00:38:13,599
that uh well certainly

1088
00:38:16,550 --> 00:38:14,640
some people say that it might be a

1089
00:38:17,750 --> 00:38:16,560
hologram around something but even that

1090
00:38:19,430 --> 00:38:17,760
doesn't it doesn't doesn't make much

1091
00:38:21,270 --> 00:38:19,440
sense from a conventional physics point

1092
00:38:22,790 --> 00:38:21,280
of view but of course you know in in

1093
00:38:24,550 --> 00:38:22,800
many people's minds conventional physics

1094
00:38:28,069 --> 00:38:24,560
is out of the water so

1095
00:38:32,310 --> 00:38:30,470
and i say that i brought up the hologram

1096
00:38:34,069 --> 00:38:32,320
because i'm just trying to think in my

1097
00:38:35,270 --> 00:38:34,079
mind how you could have a visual that

1098
00:38:37,670 --> 00:38:35,280
would be able to perform with these

1099
00:38:40,550 --> 00:38:37,680
different maneuvers but but you're right

1100
00:38:42,710 --> 00:38:40,560
i i spoke to uh you know defense experts

1101
00:38:45,430 --> 00:38:42,720
defense technology people and and they

1102
00:38:46,950 --> 00:38:45,440
said the same thing you did they're like

1103
00:38:49,190 --> 00:38:46,960
you're not gonna have a hologram that

1104
00:38:51,670 --> 00:38:49,200
can do this and tell me a hologram

1105
00:38:53,829 --> 00:38:51,680
that's gonna have a solid surface return

1106
00:38:56,310 --> 00:38:53,839
and and that was that was another key

1107
00:38:58,710 --> 00:38:56,320
point in the electronic systems warfare

1108
00:39:00,870 --> 00:38:58,720
specialist that i talked to is he said

1109
00:39:03,349 --> 00:39:00,880
um look man

1110
00:39:05,589 --> 00:39:03,359
we tracked him on on the spy one we

1111
00:39:07,829 --> 00:39:05,599
tracked him on the sps 49 we tracked him

1112
00:39:10,310 --> 00:39:07,839
on the sps 48

1113
00:39:12,950 --> 00:39:10,320
when it came to the uss princeton's

1114
00:39:14,710 --> 00:39:12,960
ability to track electronic

1115
00:39:17,190 --> 00:39:14,720
signal data

1116
00:39:19,349 --> 00:39:17,200
he said we couldn't get it we couldn't

1117
00:39:21,190 --> 00:39:19,359
get electronics now i know pj hughes has

1118
00:39:23,750 --> 00:39:21,200
said that the uh

1119
00:39:25,430 --> 00:39:23,760
the e2 hawk guy which for anybody who's

1120
00:39:26,390 --> 00:39:25,440
not aware that's the

1121
00:39:28,390 --> 00:39:26,400
the big

1122
00:39:30,710 --> 00:39:28,400
aircraft air warning craft it's got the

1123
00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:30,720
big dome on top and so

1124
00:39:33,829 --> 00:39:32,160
uh

1125
00:39:35,349 --> 00:39:33,839
they potentially could have systems on

1126
00:39:37,829 --> 00:39:35,359
there that would have been more advanced

1127
00:39:39,270 --> 00:39:37,839
to to maybe pick up electronic signal

1128
00:39:41,990 --> 00:39:39,280
signature data

1129
00:39:43,430 --> 00:39:42,000
but um when i spoke with him when he

1130
00:39:44,470 --> 00:39:43,440
said it was picked up on these three

1131
00:39:46,710 --> 00:39:44,480
systems

1132
00:39:48,150 --> 00:39:46,720
um he said

1133
00:39:51,270 --> 00:39:48,160
he's exactly what was

1134
00:39:52,470 --> 00:39:51,280
dude it had skin and i'm like

1135
00:39:54,870 --> 00:39:52,480
what do you mean

1136
00:39:56,950 --> 00:39:54,880
you know and he said it's solid and so i

1137
00:39:58,790 --> 00:39:56,960
don't know how a hologram would do that

1138
00:40:00,950 --> 00:39:58,800
um

1139
00:40:02,310 --> 00:40:00,960
meaning signals bounced off it by the

1140
00:40:03,589 --> 00:40:02,320
radar bounced off it or whatever they

1141
00:40:05,670 --> 00:40:03,599
were using

1142
00:40:07,910 --> 00:40:05,680
yes the target but they didn't pick out

1143
00:40:09,510 --> 00:40:07,920
electronic signal data on it at least

1144
00:40:12,150 --> 00:40:09,520
from the princeton side and so that's

1145
00:40:13,109 --> 00:40:12,160
very curious but the hawkeye supposedly

1146
00:40:13,990 --> 00:40:13,119
did

1147
00:40:15,990 --> 00:40:14,000
um

1148
00:40:18,150 --> 00:40:16,000
and so i i i

1149
00:40:19,270 --> 00:40:18,160
wholeheartedly are agree and i think

1150
00:40:20,309 --> 00:40:19,280
that's something that you've said as

1151
00:40:21,670 --> 00:40:20,319
well is

1152
00:40:24,550 --> 00:40:21,680
we are

1153
00:40:26,309 --> 00:40:24,560
at the open source level you and i don't

1154
00:40:27,349 --> 00:40:26,319
have security classification nobody

1155
00:40:30,309 --> 00:40:27,359
called me

1156
00:40:32,470 --> 00:40:30,319
to analyze it um we are in an inter

1157
00:40:34,550 --> 00:40:32,480
information vacuum

1158
00:40:38,309 --> 00:40:34,560
but those uh

1159
00:40:40,790 --> 00:40:38,319
those particular interviews i will say

1160
00:40:42,470 --> 00:40:40,800
it really had an impact on me because

1161
00:40:43,910 --> 00:40:42,480
and it's hard to describe without i wish

1162
00:40:45,589 --> 00:40:43,920
you could show them on tv when i'm

1163
00:40:47,510 --> 00:40:45,599
talking to them and how you set this up

1164
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:47,520
to get this information but when you see

1165
00:40:51,670 --> 00:40:50,160
this consistency of what i consider

1166
00:40:53,430 --> 00:40:51,680
i agree with you

1167
00:40:55,109 --> 00:40:53,440
movement that is inconsistent with our

1168
00:40:56,790 --> 00:40:55,119
laws of physics

1169
00:40:59,589 --> 00:40:56,800
does it mean it's an alien spacecraft

1170
00:41:01,030 --> 00:40:59,599
absolutely not that that is a s that is

1171
00:41:02,069 --> 00:41:01,040
a jump

1172
00:41:05,430 --> 00:41:02,079
that

1173
00:41:07,430 --> 00:41:05,440
um

1174
00:41:10,069 --> 00:41:07,440
is it

1175
00:41:11,430 --> 00:41:10,079
something really maneuvering that way

1176
00:41:13,750 --> 00:41:11,440
i don't know

1177
00:41:15,589 --> 00:41:13,760
but it would seemingly appear on

1178
00:41:16,790 --> 00:41:15,599
multiple days based on these witness

1179
00:41:19,829 --> 00:41:16,800
testimonies

1180
00:41:21,670 --> 00:41:19,839
it is something that at least appears

1181
00:41:24,870 --> 00:41:21,680
like it is

1182
00:41:27,829 --> 00:41:24,880
describing it as an it as if this is one

1183
00:41:29,750 --> 00:41:27,839
thing doing this thing and from from my

1184
00:41:30,790 --> 00:41:29,760
perspective i've always thought of them

1185
00:41:32,470 --> 00:41:30,800
as being

1186
00:41:34,309 --> 00:41:32,480
separate events that might have some

1187
00:41:35,990 --> 00:41:34,319
connection but also might not have a

1188
00:41:38,309 --> 00:41:36,000
connection like if you start out with

1189
00:41:39,750 --> 00:41:38,319
what you originally saw it was multiple

1190
00:41:42,150 --> 00:41:39,760
targets

1191
00:41:44,870 --> 00:41:42,160
going south i think there was a as many

1192
00:41:46,550 --> 00:41:44,880
as three at one time going south at a

1193
00:41:49,510 --> 00:41:46,560
little more than wind speed if not if

1194
00:41:51,990 --> 00:41:49,520
not wind speed uh then you have like

1195
00:41:54,390 --> 00:41:52,000
radar targets that started but i think

1196
00:41:56,150 --> 00:41:54,400
it was 80 000 feet and dropped down to

1197
00:41:58,710 --> 00:41:56,160
or was it 28 000 feet i can't remember

1198
00:42:01,349 --> 00:41:58,720
exactly but they dropped down

1199
00:42:02,950 --> 00:42:01,359
uh so they said at a rate that was uh

1200
00:42:04,470 --> 00:42:02,960
basically impossible it would have been

1201
00:42:06,309 --> 00:42:04,480
hundreds of g's

1202
00:42:08,309 --> 00:42:06,319
uh it would be physically impossible for

1203
00:42:10,470 --> 00:42:08,319
something to do that

1204
00:42:12,390 --> 00:42:10,480
then you've got uh

1205
00:42:15,109 --> 00:42:12,400
and you've got

1206
00:42:17,349 --> 00:42:15,119
fravor's encounter

1207
00:42:19,910 --> 00:42:17,359
and uh

1208
00:42:21,670 --> 00:42:19,920
you you get the initial thing where he

1209
00:42:23,589 --> 00:42:21,680
sees a little white dot down by the

1210
00:42:25,510 --> 00:42:23,599
ocean with an ocean disturbance like

1211
00:42:27,030 --> 00:42:25,520
some kind of boiling water type thing

1212
00:42:29,829 --> 00:42:27,040
roiling water

1213
00:42:31,990 --> 00:42:29,839
and it has this this ping pong thing

1214
00:42:33,910 --> 00:42:32,000
that the wing woman described as being

1215
00:42:35,670 --> 00:42:33,920
impossible angles being kind of

1216
00:42:37,030 --> 00:42:35,680
instantaneous changes in direction like

1217
00:42:39,589 --> 00:42:37,040
he was bouncing off something and you

1218
00:42:41,190 --> 00:42:39,599
said like like minnows i think i think

1219
00:42:41,990 --> 00:42:41,200
because fish can change direction very

1220
00:42:42,950 --> 00:42:42,000
quickly

1221
00:42:44,950 --> 00:42:42,960
yeah

1222
00:42:45,910 --> 00:42:44,960
because that they just been all over the

1223
00:42:46,870 --> 00:42:45,920
place

1224
00:42:50,630 --> 00:42:46,880
uh

1225
00:42:52,630 --> 00:42:50,640
then you've got fraver's next

1226
00:42:54,550 --> 00:42:52,640
description of what happened

1227
00:42:55,750 --> 00:42:54,560
which was essentially him flying in a

1228
00:42:58,710 --> 00:42:55,760
circle

1229
00:43:00,230 --> 00:42:58,720
and the craft uh from his perspective

1230
00:43:02,870 --> 00:43:00,240
being on the opposite side of that

1231
00:43:04,790 --> 00:43:02,880
circle and mirroring his motion and then

1232
00:43:05,510 --> 00:43:04,800
when he went down it went up and then

1233
00:43:07,109 --> 00:43:05,520
when

1234
00:43:10,630 --> 00:43:07,119
he went towards it

1235
00:43:13,109 --> 00:43:10,640
it zipped past him from his perspective

1236
00:43:14,309 --> 00:43:13,119
then you've got the uh uh chad

1237
00:43:17,109 --> 00:43:14,319
underwood's

1238
00:43:19,030 --> 00:43:17,119
uh video which is of something that from

1239
00:43:21,349 --> 00:43:19,040
what we see in the video

1240
00:43:23,750 --> 00:43:21,359
just looks like something that's flying

1241
00:43:25,349 --> 00:43:23,760
probably away from the plane and it kind

1242
00:43:26,870 --> 00:43:25,359
of gets a little bit closer it doesn't

1243
00:43:29,109 --> 00:43:26,880
really move i mean there's arguments

1244
00:43:30,630 --> 00:43:29,119
about whether it moves but i think

1245
00:43:31,670 --> 00:43:30,640
probably just the camera movement but

1246
00:43:33,109 --> 00:43:31,680
you know there's a big technical

1247
00:43:34,470 --> 00:43:33,119
argument about that

1248
00:43:36,230 --> 00:43:34,480
but i think it's i think it's fairly

1249
00:43:38,710 --> 00:43:36,240
clear that that's not moving so you've

1250
00:43:40,870 --> 00:43:38,720
got all these these different

1251
00:43:43,349 --> 00:43:40,880
things all these different things and

1252
00:43:45,030 --> 00:43:43,359
you try to say that we've got one object

1253
00:43:47,190 --> 00:43:45,040
that's doing these amazing things i mean

1254
00:43:48,790 --> 00:43:47,200
could it be that even within

1255
00:43:50,230 --> 00:43:48,800
the fravor encounter there could have

1256
00:43:52,390 --> 00:43:50,240
been more than one thing like they were

1257
00:43:54,950 --> 00:43:52,400
looking down they saw something in the

1258
00:43:56,790 --> 00:43:54,960
water or something near the water that

1259
00:43:58,069 --> 00:43:56,800
was was bouncing around

1260
00:44:00,309 --> 00:43:58,079
um

1261
00:44:02,309 --> 00:44:00,319
various things have been posited uh

1262
00:44:04,550 --> 00:44:02,319
somebody even mentioned seagulls

1263
00:44:06,870 --> 00:44:04,560
uh as a responsibility

1264
00:44:10,630 --> 00:44:06,880
who what's that man

1265
00:44:11,829 --> 00:44:10,640
there's memes out there i have the video

1266
00:44:13,430 --> 00:44:11,839
yes

1267
00:44:15,430 --> 00:44:13,440
or all things like reflections off the

1268
00:44:16,950 --> 00:44:15,440
canopy for some kind of initial sighting

1269
00:44:18,230 --> 00:44:16,960
where you're looking and you think you

1270
00:44:19,990 --> 00:44:18,240
see something but you're actually not

1271
00:44:21,750 --> 00:44:20,000
seeing what you think you're seeing

1272
00:44:23,510 --> 00:44:21,760
then you fly down and perhaps you see

1273
00:44:25,349 --> 00:44:23,520
something else and you're not not seeing

1274
00:44:27,670 --> 00:44:25,359
what you think you're seeing like yeah

1275
00:44:29,589 --> 00:44:27,680
one one thing i suggested for the whole

1276
00:44:31,349 --> 00:44:29,599
encounter thing was that what fraber was

1277
00:44:32,790 --> 00:44:31,359
seeing when he was circling it was

1278
00:44:34,470 --> 00:44:32,800
something that wasn't on the other side

1279
00:44:35,990 --> 00:44:34,480
of the circle he was actually in the

1280
00:44:37,910 --> 00:44:36,000
middle of the circle and because he was

1281
00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:37,920
flying around the middle of the circle

1282
00:44:41,510 --> 00:44:39,520
it looked like this thing was mirroring

1283
00:44:43,430 --> 00:44:41,520
him and then when he flew towards it

1284
00:44:45,109 --> 00:44:43,440
because he thought it was over there

1285
00:44:47,430 --> 00:44:45,119
when it was actually halfway towards him

1286
00:44:49,109 --> 00:44:47,440
he had this this perception of intense

1287
00:44:51,829 --> 00:44:49,119
speed but then of course you've got the

1288
00:44:54,950 --> 00:44:51,839
account of his wing woman who to some

1289
00:44:57,109 --> 00:44:54,960
to some degree correlates what he saw so

1290
00:45:00,710 --> 00:44:57,119
i don't know what that was but was that

1291
00:45:02,630 --> 00:45:00,720
the same thing as these slowly drifting

1292
00:45:04,390 --> 00:45:02,640
uh things from a few days earlier was it

1293
00:45:06,309 --> 00:45:04,400
the same thing as the thing that popped

1294
00:45:08,230 --> 00:45:06,319
down from one level to another was it

1295
00:45:10,950 --> 00:45:08,240
the thing that instantly appeared at

1296
00:45:13,349 --> 00:45:10,960
their cap point their rendezvous point

1297
00:45:15,670 --> 00:45:13,359
later on the thing were these just

1298
00:45:17,270 --> 00:45:15,680
things that because people were

1299
00:45:19,109 --> 00:45:17,280
getting into this mindset of like oh

1300
00:45:21,030 --> 00:45:19,119
there's these weird things going on they

1301
00:45:22,390 --> 00:45:21,040
start looking and they start seeing oh

1302
00:45:23,670 --> 00:45:22,400
this is a weird thing is a weird thing

1303
00:45:25,349 --> 00:45:23,680
there's lots of weird things it's one

1304
00:45:26,309 --> 00:45:25,359
big weird thing

1305
00:45:29,270 --> 00:45:26,319
mm-hmm

1306
00:45:30,829 --> 00:45:29,280
well no and that's great point and i

1307
00:45:33,190 --> 00:45:30,839
definitely

1308
00:45:34,309 --> 00:45:33,200
um and i think you're very respectful

1309
00:45:36,230 --> 00:45:34,319
about that too i don't want to say

1310
00:45:37,910 --> 00:45:36,240
anybody's wrong and and that they're

1311
00:45:39,430 --> 00:45:37,920
everything there i will say there's

1312
00:45:41,030 --> 00:45:39,440
certain things there that i agree that

1313
00:45:44,150 --> 00:45:41,040
you that um

1314
00:45:46,390 --> 00:45:44,160
you kind of brought up that from my end

1315
00:45:48,470 --> 00:45:46,400
in interviewing some of these people

1316
00:45:50,870 --> 00:45:48,480
uh not gonna name names but there are

1317
00:45:53,190 --> 00:45:50,880
certain aspects that i think are out

1318
00:45:54,710 --> 00:45:53,200
there in the ether that i

1319
00:45:57,030 --> 00:45:54,720
don't lump

1320
00:45:59,030 --> 00:45:57,040
into that category of saying

1321
00:46:01,750 --> 00:45:59,040
this is good anecdotal evidence i

1322
00:46:03,750 --> 00:46:01,760
consider this eyewitness testimony to be

1323
00:46:07,589 --> 00:46:03,760
really good um

1324
00:46:09,109 --> 00:46:07,599
one of those is uh the cap point return

1325
00:46:10,390 --> 00:46:09,119
and i know that probably gonna make a

1326
00:46:12,790 --> 00:46:10,400
lot of people mad

1327
00:46:15,109 --> 00:46:12,800
but i'll just say in in my

1328
00:46:16,710 --> 00:46:15,119
speaking with people i'm not sure how

1329
00:46:20,710 --> 00:46:16,720
certain that is

1330
00:46:23,109 --> 00:46:20,720
uh and it fall it fell enough into

1331
00:46:25,990 --> 00:46:23,119
that category where we talk about where

1332
00:46:27,990 --> 00:46:26,000
this may be memory confounding

1333
00:46:29,670 --> 00:46:28,000
differing events and this type of stuff

1334
00:46:32,470 --> 00:46:29,680
so i don't know

1335
00:46:34,309 --> 00:46:32,480
it it could have but to me i've never

1336
00:46:36,550 --> 00:46:34,319
used that whole it's back at your cap

1337
00:46:38,150 --> 00:46:36,560
coin as being evidence because i just

1338
00:46:39,589 --> 00:46:38,160
haven't i haven't felt comfortable

1339
00:46:40,710 --> 00:46:39,599
enough to say that

1340
00:46:42,069 --> 00:46:40,720
the capital

1341
00:46:43,750 --> 00:46:42,079
return just for people who don't know

1342
00:46:45,510 --> 00:46:43,760
what that is that's when commander

1343
00:46:47,910 --> 00:46:45,520
fraser went out and he saw this he had

1344
00:46:49,750 --> 00:46:47,920
this encounter and then he had gone and

1345
00:46:52,790 --> 00:46:49,760
he was on his way back and you got

1346
00:46:55,430 --> 00:46:52,800
contacted by uh by someone a radar

1347
00:46:57,430 --> 00:46:55,440
controller or the whoever was in charge

1348
00:46:58,630 --> 00:46:57,440
of that type of thing is saying that

1349
00:47:00,710 --> 00:46:58,640
uh

1350
00:47:03,270 --> 00:47:00,720
from his account that it had reappeared

1351
00:47:05,109 --> 00:47:03,280
at his cap point which i think uh

1352
00:47:07,990 --> 00:47:05,119
something something combat air patrols

1353
00:47:09,670 --> 00:47:08,000
looks combat and i don't know what it is

1354
00:47:11,670 --> 00:47:09,680
but it's it's some place where they were

1355
00:47:14,470 --> 00:47:11,680
going it was a point they were going to

1356
00:47:16,870 --> 00:47:14,480
like go and then hold for a while

1357
00:47:18,710 --> 00:47:16,880
and there he said that it had reappeared

1358
00:47:20,230 --> 00:47:18,720
there in a way that it seemed like it

1359
00:47:21,829 --> 00:47:20,240
was either going so fast the rate i

1360
00:47:24,549 --> 00:47:21,839
couldn't track it or it teleported there

1361
00:47:26,950 --> 00:47:24,559
or something there so you you're saying

1362
00:47:30,309 --> 00:47:26,960
you think that was an unrelated event or

1363
00:47:32,069 --> 00:47:30,319
just like a conflation of memory somehow

1364
00:47:32,870 --> 00:47:32,079
i i'm just saying for me and that's what

1365
00:47:34,870 --> 00:47:32,880
i said

1366
00:47:36,950 --> 00:47:34,880
i try to be very very cautious about

1367
00:47:39,109 --> 00:47:36,960
what what if you'll notice the articles

1368
00:47:40,870 --> 00:47:39,119
that i did when i when i did the the

1369
00:47:43,349 --> 00:47:40,880
enlisted witnesses back in november

1370
00:47:44,150 --> 00:47:43,359
property mechanics i didn't discuss that

1371
00:47:46,870 --> 00:47:44,160
um

1372
00:47:48,710 --> 00:47:46,880
and that's simply because it i'm not

1373
00:47:51,430 --> 00:47:48,720
saying it's not true

1374
00:47:54,470 --> 00:47:51,440
it just didn't pass the test and when i

1375
00:47:56,349 --> 00:47:54,480
talked to people that i felt 100

1376
00:47:59,270 --> 00:47:56,359
confident that was an accurate

1377
00:48:01,349 --> 00:47:59,280
recollection in memory of those events

1378
00:48:02,150 --> 00:48:01,359
it could have teleported to the chat

1379
00:48:03,750 --> 00:48:02,160
point

1380
00:48:05,109 --> 00:48:03,760
it could have

1381
00:48:07,270 --> 00:48:05,119
um

1382
00:48:09,510 --> 00:48:07,280
some other contact yeah that's the other

1383
00:48:11,670 --> 00:48:09,520
thing is i'll just say when i

1384
00:48:14,390 --> 00:48:11,680
went through that it's one of these

1385
00:48:15,430 --> 00:48:14,400
things where as you look back 15 years

1386
00:48:16,710 --> 00:48:15,440
later

1387
00:48:18,230 --> 00:48:16,720
um

1388
00:48:20,870 --> 00:48:18,240
could could the object have passed

1389
00:48:23,030 --> 00:48:20,880
through this region that was a cap point

1390
00:48:25,510 --> 00:48:23,040
at some point in time

1391
00:48:27,750 --> 00:48:25,520
and then therefore

1392
00:48:28,950 --> 00:48:27,760
as you look back in it you go well it

1393
00:48:30,950 --> 00:48:28,960
wasn't the cat point it must have been

1394
00:48:32,630 --> 00:48:30,960
this and this and and

1395
00:48:33,990 --> 00:48:32,640
and and i really love all those guys i

1396
00:48:36,470 --> 00:48:34,000
think they're great salt of the earth

1397
00:48:38,069 --> 00:48:36,480
people gary kevin all of them they i

1398
00:48:40,069 --> 00:48:38,079
can't stress enough and you talked to

1399
00:48:41,910 --> 00:48:40,079
gary i was always been impressed by him

1400
00:48:43,190 --> 00:48:41,920
would he would sit there and

1401
00:48:44,870 --> 00:48:43,200
i would talk about systems he'd be like

1402
00:48:46,870 --> 00:48:44,880
oh no no you can't be that it's you know

1403
00:48:48,549 --> 00:48:46,880
he would know these systems

1404
00:48:49,910 --> 00:48:48,559
by the back of his hand

1405
00:48:51,750 --> 00:48:49,920
um

1406
00:48:53,589 --> 00:48:51,760
but when it came to that just that

1407
00:48:56,630 --> 00:48:53,599
particular

1408
00:48:57,349 --> 00:48:56,640
account do i think that anyone overtly

1409
00:48:59,510 --> 00:48:57,359
is

1410
00:49:01,270 --> 00:48:59,520
being deceptive there no i didn't i've

1411
00:49:03,390 --> 00:49:01,280
never detected deception with any of

1412
00:49:05,109 --> 00:49:03,400
these people do i think that there's

1413
00:49:05,910 --> 00:49:05,119
potential

1414
00:49:07,829 --> 00:49:05,920
that

1415
00:49:09,670 --> 00:49:07,839
you're out there for the weeks at time

1416
00:49:11,510 --> 00:49:09,680
could something at some point in time

1417
00:49:14,829 --> 00:49:11,520
they have passed through it and you just

1418
00:49:17,670 --> 00:49:14,839
bring this back into it kind of

1419
00:49:19,109 --> 00:49:17,680
really poisons that memory

1420
00:49:21,750 --> 00:49:19,119
and

1421
00:49:23,270 --> 00:49:21,760
the first to tell you i'm very nice i

1422
00:49:26,230 --> 00:49:23,280
still talk to them i think they're great

1423
00:49:27,030 --> 00:49:26,240
guys i don't turn to them necessarily

1424
00:49:28,069 --> 00:49:27,040
for

1425
00:49:29,510 --> 00:49:28,079
um

1426
00:49:32,309 --> 00:49:29,520
evidence and eyewitness testimony

1427
00:49:34,390 --> 00:49:32,319
anymore because it's no offense to them

1428
00:49:36,150 --> 00:49:34,400
but we all they they

1429
00:49:38,630 --> 00:49:36,160
just all the events and attention

1430
00:49:39,430 --> 00:49:38,640
they've gotten the past two years

1431
00:49:41,349 --> 00:49:39,440
um

1432
00:49:43,510 --> 00:49:41,359
i try to get them as fresh as possible

1433
00:49:45,030 --> 00:49:43,520
before you start getting everything and

1434
00:49:47,430 --> 00:49:45,040
that's why

1435
00:49:49,750 --> 00:49:47,440
it's unfortunate that some a lot of the

1436
00:49:51,270 --> 00:49:49,760
the good interest the the best testimony

1437
00:49:54,309 --> 00:49:51,280
i've got has come from people that i had

1438
00:49:55,750 --> 00:49:54,319
to track down who hadn't come out yet

1439
00:49:57,670 --> 00:49:55,760
but it's very important to me to get

1440
00:50:00,309 --> 00:49:57,680
corroborating evidence that hadn't told

1441
00:50:01,190 --> 00:50:00,319
the story time and time and time again

1442
00:50:02,790 --> 00:50:01,200
um

1443
00:50:04,549 --> 00:50:02,800
to see where you could corroborate

1444
00:50:05,270 --> 00:50:04,559
different things and so the

1445
00:50:07,109 --> 00:50:05,280
thing

1446
00:50:11,750 --> 00:50:07,119
i i

1447
00:50:13,510 --> 00:50:11,760
of right now i don't consider that to be

1448
00:50:16,470 --> 00:50:13,520
a significant

1449
00:50:18,790 --> 00:50:16,480
uh i wouldn't say i wouldn't bring that

1450
00:50:19,829 --> 00:50:18,800
in the court of law if the case depended

1451
00:50:21,270 --> 00:50:19,839
on that

1452
00:50:24,150 --> 00:50:21,280
um

1453
00:50:25,589 --> 00:50:24,160
so it's in a way like you know you're

1454
00:50:27,750 --> 00:50:25,599
talking about

1455
00:50:29,750 --> 00:50:27,760
not interviewing people after they've

1456
00:50:31,510 --> 00:50:29,760
told the same story for years and years

1457
00:50:33,190 --> 00:50:31,520
and in a way and multiple people have

1458
00:50:35,510 --> 00:50:33,200
told the story and do you get kind of

1459
00:50:37,510 --> 00:50:35,520
like crosstalk in a way like

1460
00:50:38,950 --> 00:50:37,520
one person's story infects another

1461
00:50:40,470 --> 00:50:38,960
person's story

1462
00:50:43,190 --> 00:50:40,480
and i'm thinking here of

1463
00:50:45,510 --> 00:50:43,200
underwood to a degree uh chad underwood

1464
00:50:47,109 --> 00:50:45,520
is the guy who took the video the fleur

1465
00:50:49,910 --> 00:50:47,119
video after

1466
00:50:51,589 --> 00:50:49,920
uh fravo went out there and he gave an

1467
00:50:53,030 --> 00:50:51,599
an interview that's in the intelligence

1468
00:50:55,430 --> 00:50:53,040
and magazine

1469
00:50:57,349 --> 00:50:55,440
and in it he's talking about

1470
00:50:58,710 --> 00:50:57,359
the object making sudden movements and

1471
00:51:00,390 --> 00:50:58,720
he says that's what caught my eye like

1472
00:51:01,589 --> 00:51:00,400
it you know contradict the laws of

1473
00:51:04,230 --> 00:51:01,599
physics

1474
00:51:06,710 --> 00:51:04,240
and and it mentions like in the same

1475
00:51:09,510 --> 00:51:06,720
paragraph that it dropped from 80 000

1476
00:51:11,589 --> 00:51:09,520
feet to 500 feet but i don't think

1477
00:51:13,430 --> 00:51:11,599
that's something that he personally saw

1478
00:51:14,390 --> 00:51:13,440
that particular thing the the 80 000

1479
00:51:17,190 --> 00:51:14,400
feet that's something that you know

1480
00:51:18,950 --> 00:51:17,200
kevin day observed on the radar

1481
00:51:20,390 --> 00:51:18,960
so it almost seemed to me like and this

1482
00:51:22,390 --> 00:51:20,400
is something i wanted you to clarify

1483
00:51:24,790 --> 00:51:22,400
with him if you could talk to him

1484
00:51:27,670 --> 00:51:24,800
is if he was kind of

1485
00:51:29,589 --> 00:51:27,680
blending in things that people had told

1486
00:51:31,190 --> 00:51:29,599
him or even things that he'd read about

1487
00:51:33,109 --> 00:51:31,200
or seen on tv

1488
00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:33,119
that people like other people's accounts

1489
00:51:37,349 --> 00:51:34,800
like fraber's accounts

1490
00:51:38,309 --> 00:51:37,359
of the ping-pong could in a way kind of

1491
00:51:40,630 --> 00:51:38,319
um

1492
00:51:43,510 --> 00:51:40,640
infect his not his recollection but his

1493
00:51:45,430 --> 00:51:43,520
retelling of it even subconsciously

1494
00:51:47,589 --> 00:51:45,440
even though he's he's telling it as if

1495
00:51:49,349 --> 00:51:47,599
it's from his perspective he's also

1496
00:51:50,870 --> 00:51:49,359
telling it from a broader perspective

1497
00:51:52,630 --> 00:51:50,880
like he's he's incorporating other

1498
00:51:54,390 --> 00:51:52,640
people's stories and

1499
00:51:55,589 --> 00:51:54,400
did that seem

1500
00:51:58,710 --> 00:51:55,599
i mean i guess we'll have to talk to

1501
00:52:01,750 --> 00:51:58,720
chad and ask him but i have to talk yeah

1502
00:52:03,670 --> 00:52:01,760
and um you know i understand like i said

1503
00:52:05,910 --> 00:52:03,680
i think he has always i think from the

1504
00:52:08,150 --> 00:52:05,920
get-go kind of shied away from it and i

1505
00:52:11,829 --> 00:52:08,160
don't think it's because he doesn't

1506
00:52:14,790 --> 00:52:11,839
believe everything that went on there um

1507
00:52:16,630 --> 00:52:14,800
and i i would say that

1508
00:52:18,230 --> 00:52:16,640
let's go to what he said what was

1509
00:52:20,150 --> 00:52:18,240
interesting to me about what chad said

1510
00:52:22,630 --> 00:52:20,160
when he came out in the intelligence sir

1511
00:52:25,030 --> 00:52:22,640
uh in new york magazine was it was

1512
00:52:26,230 --> 00:52:25,040
strikingly remarkable to me because

1513
00:52:28,069 --> 00:52:26,240
there was a lot of contention and i know

1514
00:52:30,230 --> 00:52:28,079
you've brought this up about a longer

1515
00:52:31,589 --> 00:52:30,240
video and who had seen what

1516
00:52:33,829 --> 00:52:31,599
and so

1517
00:52:36,870 --> 00:52:33,839
it was consistent with what

1518
00:52:38,790 --> 00:52:36,880
i some other people had talked about and

1519
00:52:40,390 --> 00:52:38,800
and in fact fravor's wing woman had said

1520
00:52:42,390 --> 00:52:40,400
with this bucket of minnows darting

1521
00:52:44,470 --> 00:52:42,400
around and so i found it very compelling

1522
00:52:47,910 --> 00:52:44,480
but you're right uh we would need to

1523
00:52:50,390 --> 00:52:47,920
talk to him and and say is this what you

1524
00:52:52,309 --> 00:52:50,400
saw on the radar screen

1525
00:52:53,510 --> 00:52:52,319
or on the atlear screen

1526
00:52:55,910 --> 00:52:53,520
um

1527
00:52:57,670 --> 00:52:55,920
that formed that that

1528
00:53:00,069 --> 00:52:57,680
his description

1529
00:53:02,309 --> 00:53:00,079
was very consistent with the other

1530
00:53:05,750 --> 00:53:02,319
descriptions that were given there

1531
00:53:08,150 --> 00:53:05,760
um because of his lack of involvement

1532
00:53:09,589 --> 00:53:08,160
with um

1533
00:53:11,030 --> 00:53:09,599
the rest of everybody who's been

1534
00:53:12,710 --> 00:53:11,040
involved and kind of going on the news

1535
00:53:14,710 --> 00:53:12,720
or doing things

1536
00:53:17,030 --> 00:53:14,720
i i just don't know you're right

1537
00:53:17,829 --> 00:53:17,040
it would be reckless of me

1538
00:53:19,670 --> 00:53:17,839
to

1539
00:53:21,349 --> 00:53:19,680
form an actual conclusion because i

1540
00:53:24,549 --> 00:53:21,359
don't know how much chad underwood has

1541
00:53:26,549 --> 00:53:24,559
paid attention to this and um

1542
00:53:28,630 --> 00:53:26,559
so i don't know how much influence that

1543
00:53:30,150 --> 00:53:28,640
would be in it um

1544
00:53:32,150 --> 00:53:30,160
and again

1545
00:53:34,390 --> 00:53:32,160
what's interesting to me with this and i

1546
00:53:35,589 --> 00:53:34,400
came into this um

1547
00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:35,599
you know a year ago when i said all

1548
00:53:38,309 --> 00:53:36,880
right i'm going to seriously investigate

1549
00:53:39,270 --> 00:53:38,319
this in general

1550
00:53:41,109 --> 00:53:39,280
um

1551
00:53:42,710 --> 00:53:41,119
it wasn't just limited to the nimitz and

1552
00:53:45,109 --> 00:53:42,720
i know we said we

1553
00:53:46,710 --> 00:53:45,119
talked beforehand is that i have very

1554
00:53:49,190 --> 00:53:46,720
very very limited involvement with the

1555
00:53:50,790 --> 00:53:49,200
2015 events i i choose not to talk about

1556
00:53:52,230 --> 00:53:50,800
them because i think that's reckless to

1557
00:53:53,589 --> 00:53:52,240
talk about it with such limited

1558
00:53:55,349 --> 00:53:53,599
information

1559
00:53:58,630 --> 00:53:55,359
but it was

1560
00:54:01,510 --> 00:53:58,640
some of what these people have described

1561
00:54:02,390 --> 00:54:01,520
i was really really surprised mick to

1562
00:54:04,870 --> 00:54:02,400
see

1563
00:54:06,950 --> 00:54:04,880
this was not just an isolated event in

1564
00:54:09,430 --> 00:54:06,960
2004

1565
00:54:10,549 --> 00:54:09,440
and i mean down to the point of the the

1566
00:54:12,390 --> 00:54:10,559
weird

1567
00:54:13,589 --> 00:54:12,400
angled movements

1568
00:54:17,349 --> 00:54:13,599
and

1569
00:54:19,109 --> 00:54:17,359
shape of objects color of objects uh

1570
00:54:21,990 --> 00:54:19,119
you know there was one that i hope to

1571
00:54:23,910 --> 00:54:22,000
maybe bring out an article with uh about

1572
00:54:26,150 --> 00:54:23,920
the loring air force base one so there's

1573
00:54:29,349 --> 00:54:26,160
these weird cases that go out there and

1574
00:54:31,190 --> 00:54:29,359
that was in 1975.

1575
00:54:34,630 --> 00:54:31,200
there's these weird cases where you see

1576
00:54:36,950 --> 00:54:34,640
this strange kind of similar pattern

1577
00:54:38,630 --> 00:54:36,960
with what we would call unidentified

1578
00:54:41,190 --> 00:54:38,640
flying objects

1579
00:54:43,829 --> 00:54:41,200
uh which i contend aren't flying

1580
00:54:47,990 --> 00:54:43,839
of these strange

1581
00:54:49,829 --> 00:54:48,000
zipping around angles and

1582
00:54:51,349 --> 00:54:49,839
they're not flying

1583
00:54:53,109 --> 00:54:51,359
and so i agree wholeheartedly with you

1584
00:54:54,630 --> 00:54:53,119
when you say yeah i hear what they're

1585
00:54:58,630 --> 00:54:54,640
saying but ladies and gentlemen that

1586
00:55:01,510 --> 00:54:58,640
doesn't fit our physics now i agree i i

1587
00:55:03,670 --> 00:55:01,520
will no there there's absolutely zero

1588
00:55:06,549 --> 00:55:03,680
you won't sit here and have me say it

1589
00:55:09,109 --> 00:55:06,559
fits our physics and in fact you don't

1590
00:55:11,750 --> 00:55:09,119
hear me go down the rabbit hole i got

1591
00:55:14,390 --> 00:55:11,760
another plug of um

1592
00:55:18,230 --> 00:55:14,400
trying to say that this is anti-gravity

1593
00:55:21,589 --> 00:55:18,240
technology both secret and or alien

1594
00:55:24,710 --> 00:55:21,599
i take this nuanced view that we're

1595
00:55:27,349 --> 00:55:24,720
potentially looking at something

1596
00:55:28,950 --> 00:55:27,359
very very complex

1597
00:55:32,710 --> 00:55:28,960
and it may not be able to be easily

1598
00:55:33,510 --> 00:55:32,720
simplified and it may not be new to 2004

1599
00:55:35,589 --> 00:55:33,520
um

1600
00:55:37,829 --> 00:55:35,599
it may be something that's long standing

1601
00:55:40,309 --> 00:55:37,839
and i think that's where my continued

1602
00:55:41,829 --> 00:55:40,319
interest has gone into this

1603
00:55:43,910 --> 00:55:41,839
um

1604
00:55:45,430 --> 00:55:43,920
going down to recently and i you know if

1605
00:55:46,470 --> 00:55:45,440
this is something you want to discuss is

1606
00:55:59,510 --> 00:55:46,480
i

1607
00:56:02,950 --> 00:55:59,520
what ended project blue book and

1608
00:56:05,349 --> 00:56:02,960
everything was the condon report in 1969

1609
00:56:08,390 --> 00:56:05,359
and i i don't fault anybody for not

1610
00:56:10,630 --> 00:56:08,400
reading all 1426 pages i'm a nerd i'll

1611
00:56:12,870 --> 00:56:10,640
admit it and and

1612
00:56:15,430 --> 00:56:12,880
i was really i'll tell you me

1613
00:56:16,870 --> 00:56:15,440
i was surprised at

1614
00:56:18,789 --> 00:56:16,880
two things

1615
00:56:21,349 --> 00:56:18,799
my impression

1616
00:56:23,270 --> 00:56:21,359
of what was said in that report versus

1617
00:56:25,910 --> 00:56:23,280
what was reported to that report had

1618
00:56:27,430 --> 00:56:25,920
said in the news media even following

1619
00:56:28,950 --> 00:56:27,440
that time

1620
00:56:31,349 --> 00:56:28,960
i was really surprised that their

1621
00:56:33,670 --> 00:56:31,359
conclusion was ultimately they didn't

1622
00:56:36,710 --> 00:56:33,680
see any scientific or national security

1623
00:56:37,829 --> 00:56:36,720
value of continuing to study this but

1624
00:56:40,390 --> 00:56:37,839
yet

1625
00:56:44,069 --> 00:56:40,400
acknowledge the limitations

1626
00:56:46,950 --> 00:56:44,079
in optical and atmospheric science and

1627
00:56:49,270 --> 00:56:46,960
in the value statement they said

1628
00:56:50,309 --> 00:56:49,280
this conclusion may not hold for all

1629
00:56:52,069 --> 00:56:50,319
time

1630
00:56:52,870 --> 00:56:52,079
and i found it very interesting to add

1631
00:56:53,990 --> 00:56:52,880
that

1632
00:56:56,230 --> 00:56:54,000
um

1633
00:56:58,230 --> 00:56:56,240
and i'll just say

1634
00:56:59,430 --> 00:56:58,240
real quick before you before you

1635
00:57:01,349 --> 00:56:59,440
rebuttal that

1636
00:57:03,030 --> 00:57:01,359
is that i think before i i think one of

1637
00:57:04,710 --> 00:57:03,040
the interests most interesting things

1638
00:57:05,589 --> 00:57:04,720
that i found there and didn't expect to

1639
00:57:06,710 --> 00:57:05,599
see

1640
00:57:09,750 --> 00:57:06,720
was

1641
00:57:11,030 --> 00:57:09,760
where i could find a conclusion where

1642
00:57:13,589 --> 00:57:11,040
they

1643
00:57:15,670 --> 00:57:13,599
said uh you know

1644
00:57:17,270 --> 00:57:15,680
clearly prosaic explanations couldn't be

1645
00:57:20,789 --> 00:57:17,280
completely ruled out

1646
00:57:23,270 --> 00:57:20,799
however the most probable

1647
00:57:25,589 --> 00:57:23,280
conclusion based on everything

1648
00:57:28,150 --> 00:57:25,599
was a intelligently controlled

1649
00:57:29,589 --> 00:57:28,160
mechanical device of unknown origin

1650
00:57:32,309 --> 00:57:29,599
that's weird

1651
00:57:35,589 --> 00:57:32,319
that's a weird thing for them to say

1652
00:57:38,549 --> 00:57:35,599
and that was their conclusion

1653
00:57:42,309 --> 00:57:38,559
and so you know for me

1654
00:57:45,510 --> 00:57:42,319
they could have explained uh 11 999 but

1655
00:57:47,430 --> 00:57:45,520
that one there that they decided was

1656
00:57:49,030 --> 00:57:47,440
most likely a mechanical device of

1657
00:57:51,589 --> 00:57:49,040
unknown origin

1658
00:57:55,670 --> 00:57:51,599
that's interesting and so

1659
00:57:57,109 --> 00:57:55,680
where did that come out uh 1969 is when

1660
00:58:00,470 --> 00:57:57,119
it was released and that's why i say

1661
00:58:02,230 --> 00:58:00,480
that i think people have uh if you

1662
00:58:04,870 --> 00:58:02,240
if you spend a lot of time looking at

1663
00:58:08,470 --> 00:58:04,880
that what you'll see is that it was

1664
00:58:09,910 --> 00:58:08,480
submitted uh in november of 1968 the

1665
00:58:11,270 --> 00:58:09,920
county report was submitted it went

1666
00:58:14,309 --> 00:58:11,280
through peer review

1667
00:58:16,150 --> 00:58:14,319
uh it was actually not formally publicly

1668
00:58:19,190 --> 00:58:16,160
released until

1669
00:58:22,230 --> 00:58:19,200
uh late january 1969 however it was

1670
00:58:23,910 --> 00:58:22,240
reported in the news and in fact famed

1671
00:58:25,910 --> 00:58:23,920
science writer walter sullivan with the

1672
00:58:27,910 --> 00:58:25,920
new york times reported on it in january

1673
00:58:29,589 --> 00:58:27,920
7th so a month before the actual report

1674
00:58:31,829 --> 00:58:29,599
came out

1675
00:58:34,390 --> 00:58:31,839
it had been reported in the news

1676
00:58:37,349 --> 00:58:34,400
of what the conclusions were

1677
00:58:38,549 --> 00:58:37,359
and i think if you looked at it though

1678
00:58:40,950 --> 00:58:38,559
and i

1679
00:58:43,430 --> 00:58:40,960
i'm not saying that they said

1680
00:58:45,910 --> 00:58:43,440
these are aliens i just said that they

1681
00:58:48,950 --> 00:58:45,920
acknowledged they hadn't

1682
00:58:50,710 --> 00:58:48,960
come to a conclusion here i think uh

1683
00:58:53,030 --> 00:58:50,720
sometimes the tech the

1684
00:58:55,430 --> 00:58:53,040
vocabulary and the phrasing that you get

1685
00:58:57,510 --> 00:58:55,440
in these uh official reports

1686
00:58:59,829 --> 00:58:57,520
sometimes gives an impression that

1687
00:59:01,270 --> 00:58:59,839
perhaps wasn't the intent

1688
00:59:03,430 --> 00:59:01,280
of the impression

1689
00:59:06,390 --> 00:59:03,440
like for example we mentioned

1690
00:59:10,069 --> 00:59:06,400
unidentified aerial phenomenon

1691
00:59:11,589 --> 00:59:10,079
and i had one guy a a journalist of

1692
00:59:12,630 --> 00:59:11,599
long-standing who's been writing about

1693
00:59:15,750 --> 00:59:12,640
this stuff

1694
00:59:17,030 --> 00:59:15,760
for a long time who was saying mick why

1695
00:59:19,030 --> 00:59:17,040
did they why do they call it a

1696
00:59:21,030 --> 00:59:19,040
phenomenon if it's not something

1697
00:59:23,750 --> 00:59:21,040
phenomenal

1698
00:59:26,230 --> 00:59:23,760
he was he was thinking that phenomena

1699
00:59:27,990 --> 00:59:26,240
meant something that was uh something

1700
00:59:29,510 --> 00:59:28,000
incredible and amazing and outside of

1701
00:59:32,150 --> 00:59:29,520
our understanding like monsters and

1702
00:59:33,190 --> 00:59:32,160
aliens and magic and things like that

1703
00:59:36,230 --> 00:59:33,200
when

1704
00:59:38,390 --> 00:59:36,240
obviously unidentified aerial phenomena

1705
00:59:40,870 --> 00:59:38,400
uh from just their perspective it just

1706
00:59:42,390 --> 00:59:40,880
means something that happened

1707
00:59:44,309 --> 00:59:42,400
it's the phenomena that happen it's an

1708
00:59:45,750 --> 00:59:44,319
unidentified aerial thing

1709
00:59:46,870 --> 00:59:45,760
it's just phenomenal sounds a bit better

1710
00:59:48,390 --> 00:59:46,880
than a thing

1711
00:59:50,150 --> 00:59:48,400
uh so it's either

1712
00:59:53,109 --> 00:59:50,160
it's either like it means that they're

1713
00:59:55,829 --> 00:59:53,119
not ruling out things like

1714
00:59:57,910 --> 00:59:55,839
uh like like lights in the sky that are

1715
00:59:59,589 --> 00:59:57,920
a venus it's not it's necessarily a

1716
01:00:00,870 --> 00:59:59,599
flying object it could be some like

1717
01:00:02,789 --> 01:00:00,880
optical thing it could be something

1718
01:00:04,390 --> 01:00:02,799
wrong with the camera uh things like

1719
01:00:06,150 --> 01:00:04,400
that so these are phenomena my physical

1720
01:00:08,390 --> 01:00:06,160
phenomena is you know water boiling at

1721
01:00:11,109 --> 01:00:08,400
100 degrees is a physical phenomena so

1722
01:00:13,349 --> 01:00:11,119
it's not it's not uh

1723
01:00:14,789 --> 01:00:13,359
it doesn't mean what

1724
01:00:18,230 --> 01:00:14,799
some people might take it to mean and

1725
01:00:20,549 --> 01:00:18,240
then the description you gave of a

1726
01:00:23,430 --> 01:00:20,559
uh an intelligently controlled

1727
01:00:25,750 --> 01:00:23,440
mechanical device of unknown origin

1728
01:00:27,990 --> 01:00:25,760
sounds really weird

1729
01:00:30,789 --> 01:00:28,000
uh if you kind of come at it from a

1730
01:00:31,510 --> 01:00:30,799
perspective of like aliens might be real

1731
01:00:33,030 --> 01:00:31,520
but

1732
01:00:34,390 --> 01:00:33,040
if if they were coming from a

1733
01:00:37,829 --> 01:00:34,400
perspective but they didn't really think

1734
01:00:39,270 --> 01:00:37,839
it was possibly aliens but uh then you

1735
01:00:40,950 --> 01:00:39,280
know they could be just thinking what

1736
01:00:42,630 --> 01:00:40,960
term should we use to encompass a wide

1737
01:00:44,549 --> 01:00:42,640
range of things

1738
01:00:46,390 --> 01:00:44,559
that would include remote controlled

1739
01:00:47,910 --> 01:00:46,400
aircraft uh

1740
01:00:49,349 --> 01:00:47,920
perhaps perhaps balloons i don't know if

1741
01:00:51,829 --> 01:00:49,359
that would be mechanically controlled

1742
01:00:52,710 --> 01:00:51,839
but remote controlled aircraft

1743
01:00:53,510 --> 01:00:52,720
uh

1744
01:00:55,750 --> 01:00:53,520
like

1745
01:00:57,430 --> 01:00:55,760
yeah aircraft is controlled by some kind

1746
01:00:59,190 --> 01:00:57,440
of clockwork mechanism they had they had

1747
01:01:02,549 --> 01:00:59,200
things like that before

1748
01:01:04,630 --> 01:01:02,559
uh or or aircraft that have people on

1749
01:01:05,910 --> 01:01:04,640
them controlling it so they wanted a

1750
01:01:08,309 --> 01:01:05,920
term that would encompass multiple

1751
01:01:10,069 --> 01:01:08,319
things like the uap thing because that

1752
01:01:10,950 --> 01:01:10,079
encompasses multiple things and if you

1753
01:01:12,390 --> 01:01:10,960
look at the

1754
01:01:13,589 --> 01:01:12,400
the navies

1755
01:01:14,710 --> 01:01:13,599
you know they've given various

1756
01:01:17,430 --> 01:01:14,720
statements one of the statements they

1757
01:01:19,910 --> 01:01:17,440
gave about what a uap might be they said

1758
01:01:21,750 --> 01:01:19,920
it might be a plane it might be a drone

1759
01:01:24,950 --> 01:01:21,760
it might be a balloon

1760
01:01:27,270 --> 01:01:24,960
so they have a term that encompasses a

1761
01:01:28,789 --> 01:01:27,280
range of things

1762
01:01:30,470 --> 01:01:28,799
but people take it to mean something a

1763
01:01:32,789 --> 01:01:30,480
bit more specific

1764
01:01:35,349 --> 01:01:32,799
they take this this this open-endedness

1765
01:01:37,270 --> 01:01:35,359
of it as being that there's something

1766
01:01:38,950 --> 01:01:37,280
unknown there

1767
01:01:39,990 --> 01:01:38,960
where did they say that

1768
01:01:42,470 --> 01:01:40,000
the the

1769
01:01:44,309 --> 01:01:42,480
this the balloon drone and plane thing

1770
01:01:46,309 --> 01:01:44,319
because i'm not familiar with that yeah

1771
01:01:48,549 --> 01:01:46,319
there's two places i think where it came

1772
01:01:51,910 --> 01:01:48,559
up uh one is in

1773
01:01:54,390 --> 01:01:51,920
the i think it's the 1918 form that

1774
01:01:55,829 --> 01:01:54,400
elizondo used to get it declassified he

1775
01:01:58,069 --> 01:01:55,839
mentioned it there but there's al it's

1776
01:02:01,990 --> 01:01:58,079
also i think it was mentioned by

1777
01:02:05,829 --> 01:02:04,150
when he was mentioning things

1778
01:02:07,430 --> 01:02:05,839
like that i would have to check on that

1779
01:02:09,990 --> 01:02:07,440
but certainly it was definitely in that

1780
01:02:12,309 --> 01:02:10,000
declassification form like you know uaps

1781
01:02:15,829 --> 01:02:12,319
for example um

1782
01:02:17,270 --> 01:02:15,839
balloons drones or aircraft

1783
01:02:18,710 --> 01:02:17,280
sure and i don't mind talking about that

1784
01:02:21,270 --> 01:02:18,720
one yeah because i'm unaware of

1785
01:02:23,270 --> 01:02:21,280
gratitude because i've i've pushed um

1786
01:02:25,750 --> 01:02:23,280
not as much graduate but susan go now

1787
01:02:28,710 --> 01:02:25,760
who who handles uh out of the other very

1788
01:02:31,349 --> 01:02:28,720
navy spokesman yes

1789
01:02:34,710 --> 01:02:31,359
okay the poor the poor woman who's been

1790
01:02:38,470 --> 01:02:36,549
yeah i'm unfamiliar with them defining

1791
01:02:39,589 --> 01:02:38,480
it is that uh i'd have to look through

1792
01:02:41,349 --> 01:02:39,599
it i don't think it was a formal

1793
01:02:43,109 --> 01:02:41,359
definition i think he was i think he

1794
01:02:45,990 --> 01:02:43,119
gave us examples of because he was

1795
01:02:47,109 --> 01:02:46,000
talking about um i think he was it was

1796
01:02:48,630 --> 01:02:47,119
during the period where he was kind of

1797
01:02:50,470 --> 01:02:48,640
surprised at the reaction everything was

1798
01:02:52,870 --> 01:02:50,480
getting and he was he was trying to say

1799
01:02:54,789 --> 01:02:52,880
no we just mean things like you know

1800
01:02:57,270 --> 01:02:54,799
uh airspace incursions which might be

1801
01:02:58,789 --> 01:02:57,280
drones or uh or planes i don't know if

1802
01:03:00,710 --> 01:02:58,799
you mentioned balloons but i might be

1803
01:03:02,549 --> 01:03:00,720
just getting that from the form but i'm

1804
01:03:04,630 --> 01:03:02,559
pretty sure he mentioned drones so i you

1805
01:03:06,549 --> 01:03:04,640
know my point is really that the

1806
01:03:08,789 --> 01:03:06,559
that they're covering their bases with

1807
01:03:09,829 --> 01:03:08,799
these things uh but i don't think their

1808
01:03:12,789 --> 01:03:09,839
bases

1809
01:03:14,870 --> 01:03:12,799
really include uh you know some kind of

1810
01:03:16,470 --> 01:03:14,880
alien type thing

1811
01:03:18,390 --> 01:03:16,480
well i

1812
01:03:19,750 --> 01:03:18,400
we agree on one thing and that for

1813
01:03:22,390 --> 01:03:19,760
certain i actually call it a lot of

1814
01:03:24,870 --> 01:03:22,400
things is it i think it is

1815
01:03:27,029 --> 01:03:24,880
it's just a false dichotomy and it's

1816
01:03:27,829 --> 01:03:27,039
it's wrong-headed from anybody's side i

1817
01:03:30,309 --> 01:03:27,839
think

1818
01:03:33,510 --> 01:03:30,319
you're a skeptic or quote believer to

1819
01:03:36,390 --> 01:03:33,520
automatically assume that uap ufo

1820
01:03:37,430 --> 01:03:36,400
equates to alien okay so i i have never

1821
01:03:41,029 --> 01:03:37,440
i don't

1822
01:03:44,309 --> 01:03:41,039
all i'm trying to say that i do believe

1823
01:03:48,950 --> 01:03:44,319
it represents potentially a more complex

1824
01:03:55,270 --> 01:03:51,910
answered easily but uh you're right

1825
01:03:56,710 --> 01:03:55,280
anybody if you jump into aliens they're

1826
01:03:58,150 --> 01:03:56,720
i'll just say and looking at all of it

1827
01:03:59,589 --> 01:03:58,160
and talking to these people who even

1828
01:04:02,069 --> 01:03:59,599
look at this stuff right now in

1829
01:04:04,549 --> 01:04:02,079
government i have not heard one of them

1830
01:04:05,829 --> 01:04:04,559
say alien um

1831
01:04:08,390 --> 01:04:05,839
but um

1832
01:04:10,549 --> 01:04:08,400
as far as the form 1910 i i don't mind

1833
01:04:12,069 --> 01:04:10,559
commenting on some of that because i did

1834
01:04:13,829 --> 01:04:12,079
i did an article on that and actually

1835
01:04:14,549 --> 01:04:13,839
investigated that and was able to speak

1836
01:04:16,150 --> 01:04:14,559
to

1837
01:04:18,549 --> 01:04:16,160
some of the individuals who were

1838
01:04:20,390 --> 01:04:18,559
involved in the the process of the

1839
01:04:21,829 --> 01:04:20,400
disclosure thing along with with mr

1840
01:04:23,349 --> 01:04:21,839
elizondo

1841
01:04:27,270 --> 01:04:23,359
um

1842
01:04:29,029 --> 01:04:27,280
and so in terms of uh what mr lozando

1843
01:04:30,309 --> 01:04:29,039
says in term you know what they wrote on

1844
01:04:31,910 --> 01:04:30,319
that form

1845
01:04:33,670 --> 01:04:31,920
i think people have really harped on

1846
01:04:36,069 --> 01:04:33,680
that well that's what it is and blah

1847
01:04:39,109 --> 01:04:36,079
blah blah blah

1848
01:04:41,670 --> 01:04:39,119
mr lozano's explanation has been look

1849
01:04:42,789 --> 01:04:41,680
that's what we wrote on there because

1850
01:04:44,309 --> 01:04:42,799
it goes back to what i said in this

1851
01:04:46,710 --> 01:04:44,319
bureaucratic process where it takes ten

1852
01:04:48,549 --> 01:04:46,720
people to change toilet paper um

1853
01:04:50,150 --> 01:04:48,559
dobson

1854
01:04:51,750 --> 01:04:50,160
sure they are cleared for top secret

1855
01:04:53,829 --> 01:04:51,760
information but at the end of the day

1856
01:04:56,470 --> 01:04:53,839
they rely on the original classification

1857
01:04:58,069 --> 01:04:56,480
authority in this case was the navy and

1858
01:05:00,309 --> 01:04:58,079
so um

1859
01:05:02,710 --> 01:05:00,319
i i did in an article i wrote in january

1860
01:05:05,349 --> 01:05:02,720
of trying to follow the tale of the tape

1861
01:05:07,750 --> 01:05:05,359
where where i was able to to you know

1862
01:05:09,670 --> 01:05:07,760
this was the susan go the spokesperson

1863
01:05:12,150 --> 01:05:09,680
said it wasn't elizondo's fault it was

1864
01:05:14,870 --> 01:05:12,160
responsible of dobson to to not get this

1865
01:05:16,789 --> 01:05:14,880
final uh public release approved

1866
01:05:18,630 --> 01:05:16,799
uh her words not mine that's what people

1867
01:05:20,470 --> 01:05:18,640
have listen i'm no

1868
01:05:22,230 --> 01:05:20,480
it's not like i'm fans with to the stars

1869
01:05:25,589 --> 01:05:22,240
anybody else we can go on to things that

1870
01:05:27,270 --> 01:05:25,599
happen that i disagree with but um

1871
01:05:28,870 --> 01:05:27,280
when it came to that in terms of what

1872
01:05:30,950 --> 01:05:28,880
they titled it is

1873
01:05:32,789 --> 01:05:30,960
as

1874
01:05:35,270 --> 01:05:32,799
i talked to

1875
01:05:37,589 --> 01:05:35,280
three different people who had worked

1876
01:05:39,910 --> 01:05:37,599
one was in the dia one was in the cia

1877
01:05:41,910 --> 01:05:39,920
science technology division all retired

1878
01:05:42,870 --> 01:05:41,920
and i asked him i said is this weird to

1879
01:05:44,630 --> 01:05:42,880
you

1880
01:05:46,630 --> 01:05:44,640
and i explained the situation and

1881
01:05:48,390 --> 01:05:46,640
everything and they they they said you

1882
01:05:50,870 --> 01:05:48,400
know

1883
01:05:54,150 --> 01:05:50,880
he could have wrote giant purple

1884
01:05:56,470 --> 01:05:54,160
elephants on there and it doesn't matter

1885
01:05:57,910 --> 01:05:56,480
so long as the original classification

1886
01:06:00,470 --> 01:05:57,920
authority which in this case was the

1887
01:06:01,589 --> 01:06:00,480
navy was always in the loop because that

1888
01:06:03,109 --> 01:06:01,599
was who

1889
01:06:04,710 --> 01:06:03,119
originally classified it that's who's

1890
01:06:06,710 --> 01:06:04,720
originally going to determine what it is

1891
01:06:08,950 --> 01:06:06,720
and isn't and in the emails that were

1892
01:06:11,750 --> 01:06:08,960
released through foia

1893
01:06:13,430 --> 01:06:11,760
we can see the list that the there was

1894
01:06:15,750 --> 01:06:13,440
naval personnel there was an original

1895
01:06:19,430 --> 01:06:15,760
classification authority included the

1896
01:06:21,990 --> 01:06:19,440
entire time and so i i um

1897
01:06:23,430 --> 01:06:22,000
there's nothing that i have found

1898
01:06:25,510 --> 01:06:23,440
there's no evidence that i have found

1899
01:06:28,230 --> 01:06:25,520
that that involved any kind of either a

1900
01:06:29,990 --> 01:06:28,240
deception which would have been initial

1901
01:06:31,349 --> 01:06:30,000
deception meaning i'm trying to trick

1902
01:06:33,510 --> 01:06:31,359
you hahaha

1903
01:06:36,390 --> 01:06:33,520
that these are really balloons and get

1904
01:06:38,710 --> 01:06:36,400
them out or now to this day that these

1905
01:06:39,990 --> 01:06:38,720
were really balloons um

1906
01:06:41,510 --> 01:06:40,000
and but to your point as you're saying

1907
01:06:44,150 --> 01:06:41,520
could uap

1908
01:06:48,710 --> 01:06:44,160
encompass these types of things

1909
01:06:52,069 --> 01:06:49,910
you know

1910
01:06:54,870 --> 01:06:52,079
it could encompass

1911
01:06:57,349 --> 01:06:54,880
a lot of things you know spaceships

1912
01:06:58,150 --> 01:06:57,359
included or or not

1913
01:06:59,910 --> 01:06:58,160
um

1914
01:07:01,270 --> 01:06:59,920
i don't mind talking on the fact that i

1915
01:07:03,430 --> 01:07:01,280
think probably one of the most

1916
01:07:05,190 --> 01:07:03,440
significant things that occurred as of

1917
01:07:08,150 --> 01:07:05,200
recent for me

1918
01:07:10,950 --> 01:07:08,160
um was the department of defense release

1919
01:07:11,829 --> 01:07:10,960
was it last monday last week

1920
01:07:13,349 --> 01:07:11,839
um

1921
01:07:15,029 --> 01:07:13,359
because i want to make sure that i kind

1922
01:07:17,270 --> 01:07:15,039
of express

1923
01:07:18,390 --> 01:07:17,280
the boring side of things that went on

1924
01:07:21,029 --> 01:07:18,400
with that

1925
01:07:23,510 --> 01:07:21,039
and where that was impressive and

1926
01:07:25,750 --> 01:07:23,520
significant in my opinion is

1927
01:07:26,630 --> 01:07:25,760
this was a release that was done

1928
01:07:29,270 --> 01:07:26,640
by

1929
01:07:30,390 --> 01:07:29,280
the office of the secretary of defense

1930
01:07:32,870 --> 01:07:30,400
and so

1931
01:07:35,430 --> 01:07:32,880
uh when it wasn't just susan go telling

1932
01:07:36,710 --> 01:07:35,440
me it wasn't just susan go telling

1933
01:07:39,670 --> 01:07:36,720
whoever

1934
01:07:41,270 --> 01:07:39,680
uh this was a formal release that went

1935
01:07:43,190 --> 01:07:41,280
out through

1936
01:07:45,190 --> 01:07:43,200
the press pool it was an official

1937
01:07:47,109 --> 01:07:45,200
release by the department of defense and

1938
01:07:48,230 --> 01:07:47,119
so in this particular instance and i

1939
01:07:50,069 --> 01:07:48,240
remember we talked a little bit about

1940
01:07:51,829 --> 01:07:50,079
what are the policies in terms of like

1941
01:07:54,069 --> 01:07:51,839
southern command or pacific command and

1942
01:07:55,029 --> 01:07:54,079
i was being a jerk but at the end of the

1943
01:07:57,109 --> 01:07:55,039
day

1944
01:07:58,789 --> 01:07:57,119
it's a little different because

1945
01:08:01,829 --> 01:07:58,799
at the office of secretary of defense

1946
01:08:03,029 --> 01:08:01,839
that is how that's the civilian

1947
01:08:05,990 --> 01:08:03,039
government

1948
01:08:08,069 --> 01:08:06,000
heads who are in charge of the military

1949
01:08:10,150 --> 01:08:08,079
and so

1950
01:08:13,029 --> 01:08:10,160
the process before that release went out

1951
01:08:14,630 --> 01:08:13,039
would have involved general counsel

1952
01:08:17,269 --> 01:08:14,640
legal affairs

1953
01:08:20,070 --> 01:08:17,279
uh the secretary of defense

1954
01:08:22,149 --> 01:08:20,080
um up to and i'm not limited potentially

1955
01:08:23,269 --> 01:08:22,159
to the president of the united states

1956
01:08:26,070 --> 01:08:23,279
and so

1957
01:08:28,229 --> 01:08:26,080
i i do believe if there was a more

1958
01:08:30,709 --> 01:08:28,239
prosaic explanation that had been

1959
01:08:33,030 --> 01:08:30,719
determined there yeah

1960
01:08:34,229 --> 01:08:33,040
i think they would have said it

1961
01:08:36,550 --> 01:08:34,239
yeah i know

1962
01:08:37,510 --> 01:08:36,560
well you know the thing is that

1963
01:08:39,269 --> 01:08:37,520
yeah i

1964
01:08:41,829 --> 01:08:39,279
they are unidentified the things in

1965
01:08:43,189 --> 01:08:41,839
these videos are unidentified

1966
01:08:44,870 --> 01:08:43,199
but

1967
01:08:46,550 --> 01:08:44,880
that does that what does that mean it

1968
01:08:47,990 --> 01:08:46,560
just means they weren't able to identify

1969
01:08:49,349 --> 01:08:48,000
them because they were too far away or

1970
01:08:50,470 --> 01:08:49,359
there wasn't enough information in the

1971
01:08:52,309 --> 01:08:50,480
videos

1972
01:08:53,669 --> 01:08:52,319
they haven't identified that there was

1973
01:08:55,349 --> 01:08:53,679
something weird

1974
01:08:57,030 --> 01:08:55,359
they just haven't identified what they

1975
01:09:00,709 --> 01:08:57,040
were

1976
01:09:04,950 --> 01:09:02,390
it's almost

1977
01:09:07,749 --> 01:09:04,960
when i was reading it

1978
01:09:09,189 --> 01:09:07,759
so when i was reading the uh the

1979
01:09:10,630 --> 01:09:09,199
the press release that went along with

1980
01:09:11,510 --> 01:09:10,640
that from the uh

1981
01:09:13,430 --> 01:09:11,520
the

1982
01:09:14,709 --> 01:09:13,440
i can't remember which office it is but

1983
01:09:16,470 --> 01:09:14,719
uh the

1984
01:09:18,550 --> 01:09:16,480
they basically almost seemed like they

1985
01:09:21,590 --> 01:09:18,560
thought that releasing these videos

1986
01:09:23,110 --> 01:09:21,600
officially it would clear things up

1987
01:09:25,189 --> 01:09:23,120
and they said like he would answer

1988
01:09:26,229 --> 01:09:25,199
questions as to whether

1989
01:09:28,149 --> 01:09:26,239
uh

1990
01:09:29,510 --> 01:09:28,159
whether there's more video i should look

1991
01:09:31,430 --> 01:09:29,520
at what the actual

1992
01:09:33,189 --> 01:09:31,440
uh thing is real quick let's see i've

1993
01:09:35,430 --> 01:09:33,199
got a link on my

1994
01:09:38,630 --> 01:09:35,440
first page here

1995
01:09:41,030 --> 01:09:38,640
maybe release it so they said uh

1996
01:09:42,789 --> 01:09:41,040
dod is releasing the videos in order to

1997
01:09:44,630 --> 01:09:42,799
clear up any misconceptions by the

1998
01:09:46,789 --> 01:09:44,640
public on whether or not the footage

1999
01:09:49,110 --> 01:09:46,799
that has been circulated was real or

2000
01:09:50,630 --> 01:09:49,120
whether or not there is more videos the

2001
01:09:52,070 --> 01:09:50,640
aerial phenomena

2002
01:09:56,790 --> 01:09:52,080
observed in the videos remains

2003
01:10:00,470 --> 01:09:58,709
uh and they said it doesn't reveal any

2004
01:10:01,910 --> 01:10:00,480
sensitive capabilities or systems or

2005
01:10:03,270 --> 01:10:01,920
doesn't impinge upon future

2006
01:10:04,790 --> 01:10:03,280
investigation so they didn't really say

2007
01:10:06,149 --> 01:10:04,800
very much but they they kind of said

2008
01:10:09,669 --> 01:10:06,159
that they were clearing up

2009
01:10:11,430 --> 01:10:09,679
misconceptions with this release

2010
01:10:13,669 --> 01:10:11,440
and he said it's like released this

2011
01:10:16,149 --> 01:10:13,679
storm of speculation of

2012
01:10:18,310 --> 01:10:16,159
everybody saying that navy admits ufos

2013
01:10:21,030 --> 01:10:18,320
are real i mean all it says is that navy

2014
01:10:23,830 --> 01:10:21,040
admits um they couldn't identify certain

2015
01:10:26,550 --> 01:10:23,840
things on certain videos

2016
01:10:27,750 --> 01:10:26,560
sure and this is where we kind of from

2017
01:10:29,510 --> 01:10:27,760
my point of view because i know that's

2018
01:10:31,270 --> 01:10:29,520
the thing is i think it's cool that we

2019
01:10:32,630 --> 01:10:31,280
both come from different backgrounds and

2020
01:10:34,709 --> 01:10:32,640
so that's cool because i think we can

2021
01:10:36,550 --> 01:10:34,719
come to i'll learn a lot from you and

2022
01:10:37,590 --> 01:10:36,560
maybe you know somebody learn anything

2023
01:10:39,990 --> 01:10:37,600
from me

2024
01:10:42,229 --> 01:10:40,000
um i think from my position in a policy

2025
01:10:43,750 --> 01:10:42,239
standpoint of what goes on at the other

2026
01:10:45,590 --> 01:10:43,760
offices of secretary of defense why

2027
01:10:46,709 --> 01:10:45,600
that's significant is

2028
01:10:49,350 --> 01:10:46,719
because

2029
01:10:53,430 --> 01:10:49,360
you're right the unidentified moniker is

2030
01:10:56,070 --> 01:10:53,440
going to breed fire to the ufo

2031
01:10:57,189 --> 01:10:56,080
assumption by people

2032
01:10:59,830 --> 01:10:57,199
and i don't think that's something that

2033
01:11:02,229 --> 01:10:59,840
the dod necessarily like wants to do

2034
01:11:03,750 --> 01:11:02,239
willingly and they're going to do that

2035
01:11:05,590 --> 01:11:03,760
and so

2036
01:11:06,950 --> 01:11:05,600
a couple of things there and i make sure

2037
01:11:08,630 --> 01:11:06,960
that i think i've pointed this out

2038
01:11:10,470 --> 01:11:08,640
before but i'll make sure to touch on it

2039
01:11:11,270 --> 01:11:10,480
well is

2040
01:11:13,990 --> 01:11:11,280
if

2041
01:11:15,350 --> 01:11:14,000
the department of defense was lying

2042
01:11:16,870 --> 01:11:15,360
so if they were because i know this

2043
01:11:18,709 --> 01:11:16,880
comes up it was black projects they

2044
01:11:19,590 --> 01:11:18,719
really do know if they could identify

2045
01:11:23,110 --> 01:11:19,600
them

2046
01:11:25,350 --> 01:11:23,120
if they were lying they violated several

2047
01:11:28,550 --> 01:11:25,360
federal laws by doing that because you

2048
01:11:31,350 --> 01:11:28,560
can engage in propaganda or deception

2049
01:11:33,669 --> 01:11:31,360
against foreign government targets but

2050
01:11:35,910 --> 01:11:33,679
this was an american release you cannot

2051
01:11:36,630 --> 01:11:35,920
target the american people

2052
01:11:37,510 --> 01:11:36,640
for

2053
01:11:39,910 --> 01:11:37,520
uh

2054
01:11:42,630 --> 01:11:39,920
propaganda or lying to them so either

2055
01:11:43,750 --> 01:11:42,640
the the secretary of defense lied there

2056
01:11:45,910 --> 01:11:43,760
or

2057
01:11:49,270 --> 01:11:45,920
they didn't do everything

2058
01:11:51,510 --> 01:11:49,280
possible to provide some explanation

2059
01:11:55,110 --> 01:11:51,520
because i believe that if they could

2060
01:11:57,110 --> 01:11:55,120
have said ladies and gentlemen the uh

2061
01:11:58,310 --> 01:11:57,120
the engineering analysis of these events

2062
01:12:00,630 --> 01:11:58,320
and everything we have not been able to

2063
01:12:02,950 --> 01:12:00,640
determine conclusively what they are

2064
01:12:06,390 --> 01:12:02,960
however uh most probably they're a

2065
01:12:08,310 --> 01:12:06,400
distant airplane or you know we

2066
01:12:09,510 --> 01:12:08,320
if they could have concluded that they

2067
01:12:11,990 --> 01:12:09,520
would have

2068
01:12:13,910 --> 01:12:12,000
and so to give you that unidentified

2069
01:12:15,990 --> 01:12:13,920
marker one of the things that's

2070
01:12:17,990 --> 01:12:16,000
interesting about that is it opens up a

2071
01:12:19,189 --> 01:12:18,000
legal precedent and a policy precedent

2072
01:12:22,310 --> 01:12:19,199
in which

2073
01:12:24,310 --> 01:12:22,320
uh that other side of the release that

2074
01:12:25,990 --> 01:12:24,320
has yet to come out that has been

2075
01:12:28,470 --> 01:12:26,000
delayed for some time and i think

2076
01:12:30,470 --> 01:12:28,480
anybody in the ufo world knows and that

2077
01:12:32,550 --> 01:12:30,480
follows um

2078
01:12:35,270 --> 01:12:32,560
the article that i wrote back in in

2079
01:12:37,830 --> 01:12:35,280
february february 14th where

2080
01:12:40,229 --> 01:12:37,840
um you know initially they had said that

2081
01:12:42,790 --> 01:12:40,239
this offset program had nothing to do

2082
01:12:44,229 --> 01:12:42,800
with ufos it's so silly and then i you

2083
01:12:45,750 --> 01:12:44,239
know i

2084
01:12:47,750 --> 01:12:45,760
by using their own statements to

2085
01:12:48,870 --> 01:12:47,760
congress and their own reports and

2086
01:12:50,630 --> 01:12:48,880
everything that was provided to him i

2087
01:12:51,669 --> 01:12:50,640
was like well this is not true here it

2088
01:12:53,510 --> 01:12:51,679
goes

2089
01:12:56,790 --> 01:12:53,520
this this you definitely were involved

2090
01:12:58,310 --> 01:12:56,800
in ufo race research in some capacity

2091
01:12:59,510 --> 01:12:58,320
and so

2092
01:13:02,790 --> 01:12:59,520
um

2093
01:13:04,709 --> 01:13:02,800
if you're going to acknowledge that

2094
01:13:06,390 --> 01:13:04,719
and again

2095
01:13:08,070 --> 01:13:06,400
just because they're involved in ufo

2096
01:13:09,590 --> 01:13:08,080
investigations

2097
01:13:11,750 --> 01:13:09,600
doesn't mean they're getting ready to

2098
01:13:13,910 --> 01:13:11,760
roll out the disclosure and they're

2099
01:13:15,990 --> 01:13:13,920
getting ready to bring out the aliens

2100
01:13:17,990 --> 01:13:16,000
from the secret base or whatever other

2101
01:13:19,910 --> 01:13:18,000
theories that could be out there but it

2102
01:13:21,910 --> 01:13:19,920
does set the framework for

2103
01:13:23,910 --> 01:13:21,920
behind the fact that if indeed the

2104
01:13:26,390 --> 01:13:23,920
united states government

2105
01:13:28,229 --> 01:13:26,400
is engaged in a formalized programs to

2106
01:13:31,110 --> 01:13:28,239
look at these events

2107
01:13:32,630 --> 01:13:31,120
that indeed they do encounter

2108
01:13:33,910 --> 01:13:32,640
unidentified

2109
01:13:35,430 --> 01:13:33,920
aerial

2110
01:13:36,550 --> 01:13:35,440
phenomena

2111
01:13:39,030 --> 01:13:36,560
um

2112
01:13:40,149 --> 01:13:39,040
and sets that stage for it

2113
01:13:41,910 --> 01:13:40,159
um

2114
01:13:44,709 --> 01:13:41,920
so

2115
01:13:46,630 --> 01:13:44,719
what if it's just simply that

2116
01:13:49,430 --> 01:13:46,640
the you know there's there's there are

2117
01:13:50,470 --> 01:13:49,440
secrets involved and they can't tell you

2118
01:13:52,470 --> 01:13:50,480
this because it's you know it's

2119
01:13:55,350 --> 01:13:52,480
classified top secret stuff

2120
01:13:56,790 --> 01:13:55,360
uh is this something that you that is

2121
01:13:58,830 --> 01:13:56,800
this this this statement that they

2122
01:14:00,950 --> 01:13:58,840
released does that conflict with that

2123
01:14:02,630 --> 01:14:00,960
interpretation could it just be a cover

2124
01:14:04,709 --> 01:14:02,640
i mean like obviously you go back to

2125
01:14:06,709 --> 01:14:04,719
things like like roswell

2126
01:14:09,910 --> 01:14:06,719
uh where the government gave a cover

2127
01:14:12,149 --> 01:14:09,920
story for these these um these sonar

2128
01:14:14,229 --> 01:14:12,159
balloons or whatever they were that uh

2129
01:14:16,310 --> 01:14:14,239
people thought were flying sources

2130
01:14:18,709 --> 01:14:16,320
and uh i don't think they said that they

2131
01:14:21,030 --> 01:14:18,719
were flying sources but they they gave

2132
01:14:21,990 --> 01:14:21,040
some other story and it seems like a

2133
01:14:23,990 --> 01:14:22,000
reasonable thing to do for the

2134
01:14:25,590 --> 01:14:24,000
government to give a cover story

2135
01:14:27,910 --> 01:14:25,600
and say one thing when they actually

2136
01:14:29,590 --> 01:14:27,920
mean another thing is this is this

2137
01:14:32,229 --> 01:14:29,600
statement actually a lie or is this

2138
01:14:33,910 --> 01:14:32,239
actually illegal if if they

2139
01:14:35,030 --> 01:14:33,920
if they do

2140
01:14:38,070 --> 01:14:35,040
um

2141
01:14:39,669 --> 01:14:38,080
know more than they're saying

2142
01:14:41,510 --> 01:14:39,679
no that's a great point because i think

2143
01:14:43,110 --> 01:14:41,520
people bring that up a lot and this is

2144
01:14:43,910 --> 01:14:43,120
something i try to reiterate to people

2145
01:14:45,669 --> 01:14:43,920
that

2146
01:14:47,830 --> 01:14:45,679
you cannot assess

2147
01:14:49,669 --> 01:14:47,840
uh the activities and

2148
01:14:53,350 --> 01:14:49,679
what is going on within government by

2149
01:14:56,229 --> 01:14:53,360
examining uh what went on in 1947 1960

2150
01:14:58,390 --> 01:14:56,239
1969 1980 because there's we have

2151
01:15:00,630 --> 01:14:58,400
different laws and presidents and so in

2152
01:15:03,630 --> 01:15:00,640
this particular case we're working under

2153
01:15:05,350 --> 01:15:03,640
executive order 13 526 section

2154
01:15:07,350 --> 01:15:05,360
1.4

2155
01:15:09,590 --> 01:15:07,360
a through g and so this is where they

2156
01:15:10,790 --> 01:15:09,600
can classify information

2157
01:15:12,470 --> 01:15:10,800
and so

2158
01:15:14,070 --> 01:15:12,480
um

2159
01:15:17,590 --> 01:15:14,080
and i get that a lot from people when

2160
01:15:19,510 --> 01:15:17,600
they're like yeah right remember uh you

2161
01:15:21,030 --> 01:15:19,520
know what's the mind mk ultra and all

2162
01:15:23,030 --> 01:15:21,040
this stuff i'm like

2163
01:15:24,550 --> 01:15:23,040
totally understand you yellow fruit in

2164
01:15:27,030 --> 01:15:24,560
the 80s and everything

2165
01:15:29,189 --> 01:15:27,040
but we're not we need to assess these

2166
01:15:31,030 --> 01:15:29,199
because these happened

2167
01:15:34,070 --> 01:15:31,040
you know and actually i believe if we

2168
01:15:35,510 --> 01:15:34,080
were gonna well now they're under 13 526

2169
01:15:37,430 --> 01:15:35,520
uh prior to that they would have been

2170
01:15:39,350 --> 01:15:37,440
under five

2171
01:15:40,550 --> 01:15:39,360
three 329 maybe i'd have to look it up

2172
01:15:41,990 --> 01:15:40,560
but another executive order that was

2173
01:15:43,510 --> 01:15:42,000
signed by george bush

2174
01:15:45,590 --> 01:15:43,520
so those are the laws and legal

2175
01:15:47,110 --> 01:15:45,600
precedents that set what they can and

2176
01:15:50,790 --> 01:15:47,120
cannot classify

2177
01:15:54,630 --> 01:15:50,800
um i can't find any legal basis and i

2178
01:15:56,470 --> 01:15:54,640
talked to a dc area national security

2179
01:15:58,790 --> 01:15:56,480
lawyer saying

2180
01:16:01,430 --> 01:15:58,800
i understand where the source and

2181
01:16:03,750 --> 01:16:01,440
methods and it actually would fall under

2182
01:16:04,630 --> 01:16:03,760
1.4 i think e or g

2183
01:16:07,590 --> 01:16:04,640
and c

2184
01:16:09,590 --> 01:16:07,600
of where they could classify

2185
01:16:11,590 --> 01:16:09,600
the methods and sources and everything

2186
01:16:15,590 --> 01:16:11,600
that they got there to arrive at that

2187
01:16:18,470 --> 01:16:15,600
conclusion the conclusion itself

2188
01:16:20,709 --> 01:16:18,480
the conclusion in saying

2189
01:16:23,030 --> 01:16:20,719
nothing not there's nothing classified

2190
01:16:25,270 --> 01:16:23,040
there's no legal basis that would have

2191
01:16:26,790 --> 01:16:25,280
that could have prevented them from

2192
01:16:28,709 --> 01:16:26,800
coming out and saying

2193
01:16:31,030 --> 01:16:28,719
right now we can't definitively say what

2194
01:16:33,030 --> 01:16:31,040
these are because they happened in 2015

2195
01:16:36,550 --> 01:16:33,040
2004. however

2196
01:16:39,110 --> 01:16:36,560
uh to the best of our analysis

2197
01:16:40,950 --> 01:16:39,120
that we have engaged in we believe these

2198
01:16:44,790 --> 01:16:40,960
to be

2199
01:16:46,630 --> 01:16:44,800
x y and z whether it's prozac planes or

2200
01:16:48,709 --> 01:16:46,640
artifacts in the system

2201
01:16:50,470 --> 01:16:48,719
but if they don't say that

2202
01:16:51,830 --> 01:16:50,480
there's nothing that forces them to do

2203
01:16:53,590 --> 01:16:51,840
that either there's

2204
01:16:55,430 --> 01:16:53,600
there's no and there's no law saying

2205
01:16:57,270 --> 01:16:55,440
that they have to reveal what they think

2206
01:16:58,550 --> 01:16:57,280
something might be if they're not sure

2207
01:17:00,390 --> 01:16:58,560
what it might be

2208
01:17:02,229 --> 01:17:00,400
that would be almost like just a pr type

2209
01:17:06,070 --> 01:17:02,239
thing rather than an actual requirement

2210
01:17:08,550 --> 01:17:06,080
for them to include that in the release

2211
01:17:10,870 --> 01:17:08,560
well sure but there is one actually

2212
01:17:13,910 --> 01:17:10,880
there is one aspect that would and and

2213
01:17:16,390 --> 01:17:13,920
it is that uh and we can see this we can

2214
01:17:18,630 --> 01:17:16,400
see this in uh take for instance the

2215
01:17:20,310 --> 01:17:18,640
past three years so the conclusions

2216
01:17:23,910 --> 01:17:20,320
there that they

2217
01:17:25,110 --> 01:17:23,920
uh unlawfully held this uh

2218
01:17:26,950 --> 01:17:25,120
you know for whatever reason it's been

2219
01:17:27,990 --> 01:17:26,960
identified but we're gonna unlawfully

2220
01:17:30,630 --> 01:17:28,000
call it

2221
01:17:31,830 --> 01:17:30,640
unidentified okay

2222
01:17:33,750 --> 01:17:31,840
or

2223
01:17:35,430 --> 01:17:33,760
the two conclusions there is we've

2224
01:17:37,750 --> 01:17:35,440
we've broken the law

2225
01:17:40,070 --> 01:17:37,760
you know up into the

2226
01:17:41,830 --> 01:17:40,080
uh executive branches and the appointed

2227
01:17:45,430 --> 01:17:41,840
officials within government in the

2228
01:17:47,510 --> 01:17:45,440
current presidential administration or

2229
01:17:48,310 --> 01:17:47,520
we are incompetent

2230
01:17:52,390 --> 01:17:48,320
and

2231
01:17:54,390 --> 01:17:52,400
but he here's the part that i say it's

2232
01:17:56,149 --> 01:17:54,400
so nuanced and silly people but but you

2233
01:17:57,350 --> 01:17:56,159
have to understand it

2234
01:17:59,030 --> 01:17:57,360
these people

2235
01:18:01,270 --> 01:17:59,040
walk around and take the secretary of

2236
01:18:03,270 --> 01:18:01,280
the navy just recently he went in there

2237
01:18:05,910 --> 01:18:03,280
make a hasty decision removed a

2238
01:18:07,590 --> 01:18:05,920
commander of an aircraft carrier went

2239
01:18:09,669 --> 01:18:07,600
out there and

2240
01:18:11,750 --> 01:18:09,679
for reasons unbeknownst to any of us

2241
01:18:14,310 --> 01:18:11,760
made an ass of himself and you know said

2242
01:18:16,229 --> 01:18:14,320
some derogatory comments and he was gone

2243
01:18:17,590 --> 01:18:16,239
before the week was over and so there's

2244
01:18:18,550 --> 01:18:17,600
always a

2245
01:18:20,709 --> 01:18:18,560
um

2246
01:18:22,790 --> 01:18:20,719
there's always somebody gunning for

2247
01:18:24,790 --> 01:18:22,800
those positions and so if you look at

2248
01:18:28,149 --> 01:18:24,800
this the episodic evidence the last

2249
01:18:29,030 --> 01:18:28,159
three years if there was

2250
01:18:30,709 --> 01:18:29,040
and this is going to go into the

2251
01:18:31,990 --> 01:18:30,719
decision making before they release this

2252
01:18:33,110 --> 01:18:32,000
because they said it's at the highest

2253
01:18:35,030 --> 01:18:33,120
levels

2254
01:18:37,430 --> 01:18:35,040
if the potential existed when people

2255
01:18:39,830 --> 01:18:37,440
started pushing they could have access

2256
01:18:43,590 --> 01:18:39,840
so the politicians and leaders

2257
01:18:45,750 --> 01:18:43,600
that this was an illegal statement or

2258
01:18:47,669 --> 01:18:45,760
or an incompetent statement meaning that

2259
01:18:49,590 --> 01:18:47,679
they hadn't thoroughly

2260
01:18:52,229 --> 01:18:49,600
examined it and the general counsel

2261
01:18:53,110 --> 01:18:52,239
hadn't approved it legally

2262
01:18:54,630 --> 01:18:53,120
um

2263
01:18:57,110 --> 01:18:54,640
seven months away from a presidential

2264
01:18:58,550 --> 01:18:57,120
election in the united states of america

2265
01:19:00,550 --> 01:18:58,560
you would

2266
01:19:01,990 --> 01:19:00,560
you know if it was consistent with what

2267
01:19:04,310 --> 01:19:02,000
we have seen in the last three years you

2268
01:19:06,470 --> 01:19:04,320
would probably see the entire democratic

2269
01:19:07,750 --> 01:19:06,480
oppositional party the the democratic

2270
01:19:09,430 --> 01:19:07,760
national convention 80 percent of

2271
01:19:11,830 --> 01:19:09,440
hollywood nobody else

2272
01:19:13,430 --> 01:19:11,840
is pointing out yet another example of

2273
01:19:16,070 --> 01:19:13,440
incompetence and everything because

2274
01:19:17,750 --> 01:19:16,080
that's how politics work and

2275
01:19:20,149 --> 01:19:17,760
in these positions these are politically

2276
01:19:22,070 --> 01:19:20,159
appointed positions and so

2277
01:19:23,830 --> 01:19:22,080
but are you putting up a legal or

2278
01:19:25,990 --> 01:19:23,840
incompetent as being the two options

2279
01:19:27,910 --> 01:19:26,000
here because that's not how it seems to

2280
01:19:29,189 --> 01:19:27,920
me like i mean it seems like a fairly

2281
01:19:30,550 --> 01:19:29,199
straightforward

2282
01:19:31,910 --> 01:19:30,560
statement that on the face of it there's

2283
01:19:33,350 --> 01:19:31,920
nothing wrong with it to me

2284
01:19:35,430 --> 01:19:33,360
[Music]

2285
01:19:38,550 --> 01:19:35,440
well

2286
01:19:42,229 --> 01:19:38,560
sure if the idea is that

2287
01:19:45,030 --> 01:19:42,239
um they did know what these objects were

2288
01:19:46,149 --> 01:19:45,040
right are they heading no uh i'm not

2289
01:19:47,910 --> 01:19:46,159
suggesting that they know what the

2290
01:19:50,709 --> 01:19:47,920
objects were i think that the objects

2291
01:19:52,070 --> 01:19:50,719
are unidentified but they have an idea

2292
01:19:55,030 --> 01:19:52,080
of the types of things that they might

2293
01:19:57,430 --> 01:19:55,040
be like i think they think that uh

2294
01:19:59,669 --> 01:19:57,440
like fleur for example might be a video

2295
01:20:01,270 --> 01:19:59,679
of one of a number of things it could be

2296
01:20:03,189 --> 01:20:01,280
a commercial jet it could be a military

2297
01:20:05,430 --> 01:20:03,199
jet it could be a drone

2298
01:20:07,189 --> 01:20:05,440
it could be a jet flown by a foreign

2299
01:20:08,390 --> 01:20:07,199
power it could be a russian jet or a

2300
01:20:10,229 --> 01:20:08,400
chinese jet

2301
01:20:11,750 --> 01:20:10,239
it could be a number of things

2302
01:20:13,110 --> 01:20:11,760
and they have an idea that it might be

2303
01:20:15,590 --> 01:20:13,120
one of those things but they haven't

2304
01:20:19,030 --> 01:20:15,600
identified what it actually is and the

2305
01:20:20,550 --> 01:20:19,040
same type thing goes for the gimbal like

2306
01:20:22,070 --> 01:20:20,560
you know gimbal i have two hypotheses

2307
01:20:23,990 --> 01:20:22,080
for gimbal not game will go fast i have

2308
01:20:25,270 --> 01:20:24,000
two hypotheses that it's either a bird

2309
01:20:27,830 --> 01:20:25,280
or a balloon because if something was

2310
01:20:29,189 --> 01:20:27,840
moving slowly at a certain altitude i

2311
01:20:30,790 --> 01:20:29,199
think it's probably a balloon but i

2312
01:20:32,310 --> 01:20:30,800
wouldn't rule out bird and of course it

2313
01:20:34,550 --> 01:20:32,320
could be some kind of excuse me

2314
01:20:36,149 --> 01:20:34,560
slow-moving drone or something like that

2315
01:20:37,990 --> 01:20:36,159
so you can know things about the videos

2316
01:20:39,990 --> 01:20:38,000
without actually identifying them so

2317
01:20:41,590 --> 01:20:40,000
maybe they've done analysis

2318
01:20:43,750 --> 01:20:41,600
on these videos the same type of thing

2319
01:20:44,950 --> 01:20:43,760
that i've done yeah to determine these

2320
01:20:46,870 --> 01:20:44,960
things like you know this maybe this is

2321
01:20:48,070 --> 01:20:46,880
just a rotating glare

2322
01:20:49,189 --> 01:20:48,080
which means that it's some kind of jet

2323
01:20:50,629 --> 01:20:49,199
engine but

2324
01:20:52,629 --> 01:20:50,639
knowing that there's a jet engine there

2325
01:20:54,870 --> 01:20:52,639
doesn't identify the object

2326
01:20:56,149 --> 01:20:54,880
so from my perspective if you look at

2327
01:20:57,590 --> 01:20:56,159
this statement by the department of

2328
01:20:59,350 --> 01:20:57,600
defense it seems like a very

2329
01:21:01,350 --> 01:20:59,360
straightforward statement that they're

2330
01:21:02,470 --> 01:21:01,360
releasing the videos and really because

2331
01:21:04,550 --> 01:21:02,480
they've got lots of freedom of

2332
01:21:05,910 --> 01:21:04,560
information act requests for them and

2333
01:21:08,070 --> 01:21:05,920
they can't be bothered dealing with them

2334
01:21:09,669 --> 01:21:08,080
all and they they think it will stop

2335
01:21:11,189 --> 01:21:09,679
people asking them if there's more video

2336
01:21:12,870 --> 01:21:11,199
if they release this and say this is all

2337
01:21:15,189 --> 01:21:12,880
the video we have

2338
01:21:17,030 --> 01:21:15,199
and characterize them as unidentified

2339
01:21:18,790 --> 01:21:17,040
isn't lying and it isn't incompetent

2340
01:21:20,390 --> 01:21:18,800
it's just like the simple classification

2341
01:21:22,709 --> 01:21:20,400
that they give and for some reason

2342
01:21:23,430 --> 01:21:22,719
they've chosen not to give the

2343
01:21:25,990 --> 01:21:23,440
uh

2344
01:21:27,990 --> 01:21:26,000
more detailed analysis of things perhaps

2345
01:21:29,030 --> 01:21:28,000
because the more detailed analysis

2346
01:21:30,790 --> 01:21:29,040
involved

2347
01:21:32,950 --> 01:21:30,800
you know analysis of things like the the

2348
01:21:35,669 --> 01:21:32,960
radar systems and whatnot and then the

2349
01:21:37,430 --> 01:21:35,679
floor system head the floor system may

2350
01:21:39,030 --> 01:21:37,440
the fact that you get a glare that

2351
01:21:40,950 --> 01:21:39,040
rotates at a certain

2352
01:21:42,470 --> 01:21:40,960
configuration may be a classified thing

2353
01:21:43,430 --> 01:21:42,480
because it's a limitation of the system

2354
01:21:44,870 --> 01:21:43,440
and it's

2355
01:21:46,470 --> 01:21:44,880
there's no good reason for it to be

2356
01:21:47,910 --> 01:21:46,480
classified but it's the type of thing

2357
01:21:49,750 --> 01:21:47,920
it's a technological limitation it's

2358
01:21:51,990 --> 01:21:49,760
classified by default

2359
01:21:54,709 --> 01:21:52,000
so you're characterizing this statement

2360
01:21:57,189 --> 01:21:54,719
as as being kind of either an illegal

2361
01:21:58,470 --> 01:21:57,199
thing a lie or some kind of incompetence

2362
01:22:00,629 --> 01:21:58,480
where they don't know what they're doing

2363
01:22:02,229 --> 01:22:00,639
whereas i i kind of

2364
01:22:03,510 --> 01:22:02,239
you know i didn't include those as

2365
01:22:05,510 --> 01:22:03,520
possibilities but i think the more

2366
01:22:07,510 --> 01:22:05,520
likely thing is that these are just

2367
01:22:10,070 --> 01:22:07,520
people doing their job and their they

2368
01:22:11,430 --> 01:22:10,080
thought that you know we would just knit

2369
01:22:12,470 --> 01:22:11,440
this one in the bud with all these

2370
01:22:13,830 --> 01:22:12,480
requests

2371
01:22:15,270 --> 01:22:13,840
get this out there and you know we

2372
01:22:16,629 --> 01:22:15,280
haven't identified it so we'll just say

2373
01:22:20,149 --> 01:22:16,639
it's not identified we don't need to get

2374
01:22:24,390 --> 01:22:22,070
and and again that

2375
01:22:27,350 --> 01:22:24,400
i'll say why i don't think that that

2376
01:22:29,669 --> 01:22:27,360
it would be likely and that simply goes

2377
01:22:33,030 --> 01:22:29,679
into the the information we discussed

2378
01:22:36,709 --> 01:22:33,040
that that's that's not out there because

2379
01:22:38,870 --> 01:22:36,719
if if the department of defense uh

2380
01:22:40,550 --> 01:22:38,880
and she the office of the secretary of

2381
01:22:43,590 --> 01:22:40,560
defense with everything at their

2382
01:22:46,149 --> 01:22:43,600
disposal had to make that conclusion

2383
01:22:49,590 --> 01:22:46,159
based on the videos and videos alone

2384
01:22:52,070 --> 01:22:49,600
that may indeed be true

2385
01:22:54,470 --> 01:22:52,080
but in this case we know and i

2386
01:22:57,350 --> 01:22:54,480
understand that you and i don't have it

2387
01:22:59,189 --> 01:22:57,360
but we know that they had a number of

2388
01:23:01,590 --> 01:22:59,199
different systems

2389
01:23:03,750 --> 01:23:01,600
uh that could have

2390
01:23:05,750 --> 01:23:03,760
been able to easily

2391
01:23:09,189 --> 01:23:05,760
track whether or not this was a distant

2392
01:23:11,830 --> 01:23:09,199
airplane or any of these types of things

2393
01:23:13,430 --> 01:23:11,840
they had you know the the carrier strike

2394
01:23:15,750 --> 01:23:13,440
group is the crown jewel

2395
01:23:18,629 --> 01:23:15,760
of the military defense apparatus and so

2396
01:23:19,910 --> 01:23:18,639
the idea that uh there were not a number

2397
01:23:22,470 --> 01:23:19,920
of other systems whether it be

2398
01:23:25,270 --> 01:23:22,480
classified or unclassified that couldn't

2399
01:23:27,430 --> 01:23:25,280
identify a distant airplane that's

2400
01:23:29,030 --> 01:23:27,440
that's disturbing in and of itself so

2401
01:23:30,790 --> 01:23:29,040
that maybe maybe incompetence wouldn't

2402
01:23:32,149 --> 01:23:30,800
be the right term that would be uh

2403
01:23:34,229 --> 01:23:32,159
deficiency

2404
01:23:36,709 --> 01:23:34,239
in capability and so i think you're

2405
01:23:38,390 --> 01:23:36,719
right i think that if you isolate the

2406
01:23:41,430 --> 01:23:38,400
videos and that's all i've ever said is

2407
01:23:45,990 --> 01:23:41,440
that i don't think that uh

2408
01:23:47,110 --> 01:23:46,000
any true conclusion can be derived at

2409
01:23:49,350 --> 01:23:47,120
just

2410
01:23:51,030 --> 01:23:49,360
by the videos alone and nor do i believe

2411
01:23:53,110 --> 01:23:51,040
the department of defense did that i

2412
01:23:54,790 --> 01:23:53,120
don't think they would have doesn't mean

2413
01:23:56,550 --> 01:23:54,800
that they ruled it was aliens doesn't

2414
01:23:57,910 --> 01:23:56,560
mean they ruled it was whatever but i

2415
01:23:59,430 --> 01:23:57,920
think that they

2416
01:24:01,030 --> 01:23:59,440
absolutely

2417
01:24:02,390 --> 01:24:01,040
would have used everything at their

2418
01:24:04,790 --> 01:24:02,400
disposal

2419
01:24:07,750 --> 01:24:04,800
including systems that frankly we

2420
01:24:10,390 --> 01:24:07,760
probably don't know about i actually we

2421
01:24:12,390 --> 01:24:10,400
certainly don't know about uh you know

2422
01:24:14,790 --> 01:24:12,400
bui air force base has a unit there that

2423
01:24:16,390 --> 01:24:14,800
is in charge of all of that

2424
01:24:18,310 --> 01:24:16,400
there's probably data there there could

2425
01:24:20,310 --> 01:24:18,320
be satellite data there

2426
01:24:21,430 --> 01:24:20,320
uh i will say

2427
01:24:24,709 --> 01:24:21,440
um

2428
01:24:28,470 --> 01:24:26,629
so what are you saying

2429
01:24:30,390 --> 01:24:28,480
are you saying then

2430
01:24:32,390 --> 01:24:30,400
that you know you're you're basically

2431
01:24:33,830 --> 01:24:32,400
saying from the nimitz case from

2432
01:24:35,110 --> 01:24:33,840
everything you talked about before that

2433
01:24:36,629 --> 01:24:35,120
you think

2434
01:24:38,390 --> 01:24:36,639
that if it was a plane they would know

2435
01:24:42,070 --> 01:24:38,400
it was a plane

2436
01:24:44,629 --> 01:24:42,080
and that by saying it's unidentified

2437
01:24:47,030 --> 01:24:44,639
that means from your perspective

2438
01:24:49,910 --> 01:24:47,040
it's not a plane

2439
01:24:51,590 --> 01:24:49,920
oh well i i i absolutely i will say that

2440
01:24:53,830 --> 01:24:51,600
the distant plane

2441
01:24:55,830 --> 01:24:53,840
if you isolate just the video and i'll

2442
01:24:57,189 --> 01:24:55,840
be having no problem going on the record

2443
01:24:59,590 --> 01:24:57,199
and i think i've said it before the

2444
01:25:00,950 --> 01:24:59,600
videos as of in and of themselves and

2445
01:25:02,149 --> 01:25:00,960
again i've told you the other two to go

2446
01:25:03,110 --> 01:25:02,159
fast and yeah but i'm not as familiar

2447
01:25:05,430 --> 01:25:03,120
with but

2448
01:25:07,750 --> 01:25:05,440
uh are they impressive and indicative

2449
01:25:08,790 --> 01:25:07,760
proof of anything

2450
01:25:11,510 --> 01:25:08,800
no

2451
01:25:14,149 --> 01:25:11,520
are they do they show alien life do they

2452
01:25:15,270 --> 01:25:14,159
show anything no and that's where i

2453
01:25:16,390 --> 01:25:15,280
think that

2454
01:25:18,229 --> 01:25:16,400
uh

2455
01:25:19,910 --> 01:25:18,239
you've got to have

2456
01:25:21,189 --> 01:25:19,920
you've got to examine totality and i

2457
01:25:23,590 --> 01:25:21,199
understand there's information out there

2458
01:25:25,830 --> 01:25:23,600
that we don't have access to

2459
01:25:28,070 --> 01:25:25,840
uh in terms of radar data and all these

2460
01:25:29,590 --> 01:25:28,080
other intangibles that would have been

2461
01:25:32,070 --> 01:25:29,600
in place there

2462
01:25:33,669 --> 01:25:32,080
but even the i the idea of a distant

2463
01:25:34,550 --> 01:25:33,679
plane theory let's say with the flare

2464
01:25:35,669 --> 01:25:34,560
one

2465
01:25:36,790 --> 01:25:35,679
um

2466
01:25:38,870 --> 01:25:36,800
for me

2467
01:25:41,669 --> 01:25:38,880
why i don't think that that's

2468
01:25:43,590 --> 01:25:41,679
yet been proven as a

2469
01:25:45,750 --> 01:25:43,600
definitive conclusion because it doesn't

2470
01:25:48,149 --> 01:25:45,760
fit in the framework of a comprehensive

2471
01:25:50,390 --> 01:25:48,159
explanatory model and i think

2472
01:25:52,950 --> 01:25:50,400
again we have two different approaches

2473
01:25:55,669 --> 01:25:52,960
and so my approach is i'm not really

2474
01:25:58,310 --> 01:25:55,679
examining just the video i'm i'm

2475
01:25:59,510 --> 01:25:58,320
examining the event and totality as best

2476
01:26:01,189 --> 01:25:59,520
as possible which includes the

2477
01:26:04,629 --> 01:26:01,199
eyewitness testimony and all these

2478
01:26:09,189 --> 01:26:04,639
different things the policies procedures

2479
01:26:11,189 --> 01:26:09,199
um and so therefore just the video alone

2480
01:26:13,750 --> 01:26:11,199
anybody who views the video alone and

2481
01:26:16,470 --> 01:26:13,760
says that it is proof of aliens or it is

2482
01:26:18,070 --> 01:26:16,480
proof of anything prosaic alone

2483
01:26:19,990 --> 01:26:18,080
i don't i don't we don't have enough

2484
01:26:21,990 --> 01:26:20,000
data points there and and i think you'd

2485
01:26:25,189 --> 01:26:22,000
agree with me you know there's certain

2486
01:26:26,870 --> 01:26:25,199
information lacking on the floor one

2487
01:26:27,590 --> 01:26:26,880
to be able to provide a good analysis

2488
01:26:30,950 --> 01:26:27,600
sure

2489
01:26:34,310 --> 01:26:30,960
we don't have

2490
01:26:36,550 --> 01:26:34,320
a host of data here that can even give

2491
01:26:39,189 --> 01:26:36,560
us the speed of the object they're going

2492
01:26:40,950 --> 01:26:39,199
and i know i saw your your recent video

2493
01:26:42,709 --> 01:26:40,960
and i'll ask you because you're the

2494
01:26:43,669 --> 01:26:42,719
technical kind of guy

2495
01:26:45,270 --> 01:26:43,679
um

2496
01:26:47,830 --> 01:26:45,280
you know can

2497
01:26:49,990 --> 01:26:47,840
are you able to on just that determine

2498
01:26:51,430 --> 01:26:50,000
the speed the speed of the object to

2499
01:26:54,070 --> 01:26:51,440
determine the speed of the object you

2500
01:26:56,390 --> 01:26:54,080
essentially have to know how big it is

2501
01:26:57,990 --> 01:26:56,400
uh so you can you can make a range of

2502
01:26:59,669 --> 01:26:58,000
determinations of

2503
01:27:01,430 --> 01:26:59,679
how big it might be and that gives you

2504
01:27:02,470 --> 01:27:01,440
how far away it is and from that you can

2505
01:27:04,950 --> 01:27:02,480
kind of

2506
01:27:06,310 --> 01:27:04,960
figure out uh how fast it is going which

2507
01:27:07,590 --> 01:27:06,320
isn't something i've really

2508
01:27:08,950 --> 01:27:07,600
done recently i remember it was

2509
01:27:10,310 --> 01:27:08,960
something that was done years ago and i

2510
01:27:12,070 --> 01:27:10,320
can't remember what the results were

2511
01:27:13,590 --> 01:27:12,080
offhand unfortunately

2512
01:27:16,790 --> 01:27:13,600
but i don't remember it being you know

2513
01:27:18,950 --> 01:27:16,800
super inconsistent with it being a plane

2514
01:27:21,590 --> 01:27:18,960
uh so you can you can do things like

2515
01:27:23,430 --> 01:27:21,600
that the the video is very low quality

2516
01:27:25,510 --> 01:27:23,440
in terms of being able to see what the

2517
01:27:27,750 --> 01:27:25,520
actual shape of the object is

2518
01:27:30,390 --> 01:27:27,760
it's either a very blurry object or it's

2519
01:27:32,709 --> 01:27:30,400
a very blurry video and i'm thinking a

2520
01:27:34,229 --> 01:27:32,719
blurry video is probably the likely

2521
01:27:35,590 --> 01:27:34,239
explanation

2522
01:27:38,149 --> 01:27:35,600
um

2523
01:27:39,990 --> 01:27:38,159
but yeah it's it's

2524
01:27:42,629 --> 01:27:40,000
the video itself

2525
01:27:43,830 --> 01:27:42,639
you know i i look at i look at the video

2526
01:27:46,310 --> 01:27:43,840
and you see you look at the bigger

2527
01:27:47,590 --> 01:27:46,320
picture but i think in order to look at

2528
01:27:49,350 --> 01:27:47,600
the bigger picture

2529
01:27:50,950 --> 01:27:49,360
you've got to

2530
01:27:53,350 --> 01:27:50,960
weed out

2531
01:27:55,669 --> 01:27:53,360
assumptions that people are making about

2532
01:27:57,669 --> 01:27:55,679
bits of the evidence like the video

2533
01:27:59,910 --> 01:27:57,679
there's a lot of people out there who

2534
01:28:01,910 --> 01:27:59,920
say things about these videos that i

2535
01:28:04,550 --> 01:28:01,920
think are just basically not true

2536
01:28:07,189 --> 01:28:04,560
either we'll say that in the fleur video

2537
01:28:08,870 --> 01:28:07,199
this one from the nimitz from 2004 they

2538
01:28:10,629 --> 01:28:08,880
will say that this object is making

2539
01:28:12,950 --> 01:28:10,639
these sudden moves and at the end it

2540
01:28:15,590 --> 01:28:12,960
zips off to the side

2541
01:28:18,870 --> 01:28:15,600
which i think if you analyze the video

2542
01:28:20,550 --> 01:28:18,880
in detail my last video was on this

2543
01:28:22,629 --> 01:28:20,560
i think that shows that it doesn't do

2544
01:28:24,790 --> 01:28:22,639
that and it's just simply the camera is

2545
01:28:26,310 --> 01:28:24,800
tracking this object so it's just really

2546
01:28:28,870 --> 01:28:26,320
the object is flying in a way that makes

2547
01:28:30,629 --> 01:28:28,880
it move across the frame which means

2548
01:28:33,110 --> 01:28:30,639
it's probably moving away

2549
01:28:34,709 --> 01:28:33,120
and to the left

2550
01:28:36,149 --> 01:28:34,719
and the plane itself is following it so

2551
01:28:38,310 --> 01:28:36,159
it gets a bit bigger because the plane

2552
01:28:40,310 --> 01:28:38,320
gets closer so i think

2553
01:28:43,189 --> 01:28:40,320
people are making claims about the

2554
01:28:45,110 --> 01:28:43,199
videos which are then incorporated into

2555
01:28:47,910 --> 01:28:45,120
this bigger picture

2556
01:28:50,229 --> 01:28:47,920
i from my perspective i'm not really

2557
01:28:52,550 --> 01:28:50,239
trying to make an overwhelming argument

2558
01:28:55,590 --> 01:28:52,560
as to what these things are

2559
01:28:57,669 --> 01:28:55,600
what i'm what i focus on is looking at

2560
01:28:59,350 --> 01:28:57,679
these these videos and then looking at

2561
01:29:02,229 --> 01:28:59,360
what people are saying about these

2562
01:29:03,990 --> 01:29:02,239
videos and then seeing if that's true

2563
01:29:07,030 --> 01:29:04,000
so if someone says

2564
01:29:10,390 --> 01:29:07,040
this gimbal video shows a

2565
01:29:12,709 --> 01:29:10,400
rotating flying saucer shaped craft

2566
01:29:14,229 --> 01:29:12,719
then i will say does it actually show

2567
01:29:16,149 --> 01:29:14,239
that is this what we're actually seeing

2568
01:29:18,390 --> 01:29:16,159
there is the another explanation for

2569
01:29:20,870 --> 01:29:18,400
that that actually fits the observed

2570
01:29:23,189 --> 01:29:20,880
facts better and i investigate that and

2571
01:29:24,790 --> 01:29:23,199
then i will i will say yeah well it

2572
01:29:26,070 --> 01:29:24,800
actually looks like it's the glare of

2573
01:29:27,350 --> 01:29:26,080
the camera and there's this gimbal

2574
01:29:28,629 --> 01:29:27,360
system thing which is very very

2575
01:29:30,870 --> 01:29:28,639
difficult to understand and you've

2576
01:29:33,750 --> 01:29:30,880
probably seen me going over and over and

2577
01:29:36,470 --> 01:29:33,760
over the same explanations on on twitter

2578
01:29:38,870 --> 01:29:36,480
and people not getting it some people

2579
01:29:40,550 --> 01:29:38,880
i've explained it to them years ago and

2580
01:29:42,390 --> 01:29:40,560
they still don't get it

2581
01:29:44,310 --> 01:29:42,400
uh which is kind of frustrating but you

2582
01:29:45,669 --> 01:29:44,320
know what can you do

2583
01:29:47,430 --> 01:29:45,679
but

2584
01:29:48,310 --> 01:29:47,440
i'm not trying to say

2585
01:29:50,070 --> 01:29:48,320
uh

2586
01:29:51,110 --> 01:29:50,080
this is this is there's nothing going on

2587
01:29:52,550 --> 01:29:51,120
here i'm not saying there's nothing

2588
01:29:54,070 --> 01:29:52,560
going on in the nimitz encounter i don't

2589
01:29:55,990 --> 01:29:54,080
know what fraver saw i don't know what

2590
01:29:57,750 --> 01:29:56,000
the the wing woman saw i don't know what

2591
01:29:59,510 --> 01:29:57,760
the wso saw even though they don't

2592
01:30:01,669 --> 01:29:59,520
really talk about it very much i don't

2593
01:30:03,590 --> 01:30:01,679
know what the radar returns were

2594
01:30:06,709 --> 01:30:03,600
maybe glitches maybe a combination of

2595
01:30:08,790 --> 01:30:06,719
factors uh i don't know what's on the

2596
01:30:10,390 --> 01:30:08,800
floor one video

2597
01:30:13,270 --> 01:30:10,400
but i do know the video doesn't show a

2598
01:30:14,310 --> 01:30:13,280
craft making certain accelerations and

2599
01:30:16,550 --> 01:30:14,320
so

2600
01:30:18,709 --> 01:30:16,560
this is really my position

2601
01:30:21,189 --> 01:30:18,719
and there are things that we can fix in

2602
01:30:23,110 --> 01:30:21,199
the evidence base and

2603
01:30:25,270 --> 01:30:23,120
by fixing these things

2604
01:30:26,709 --> 01:30:25,280
we should move closer to the truth

2605
01:30:28,870 --> 01:30:26,719
regardless of what you think that truth

2606
01:30:30,709 --> 01:30:28,880
actually is it's a precise or is it

2607
01:30:31,669 --> 01:30:30,719
something really interesting

2608
01:30:34,390 --> 01:30:31,679
um

2609
01:30:37,590 --> 01:30:34,400
so don't think i'm trying to argue a

2610
01:30:40,870 --> 01:30:37,600
certain case here i have my opinions

2611
01:30:44,229 --> 01:30:40,880
about what i think it is but i'm not

2612
01:30:45,270 --> 01:30:44,239
trying to base my uh analysis

2613
01:30:48,629 --> 01:30:45,280
on

2614
01:30:49,830 --> 01:30:48,639
want to figure out what these things

2615
01:30:52,149 --> 01:30:49,840
actually are i would love it if they

2616
01:30:53,910 --> 01:30:52,159
were alien spaceships but you know

2617
01:30:55,750 --> 01:30:53,920
unfortunately i'm not

2618
01:30:59,030 --> 01:30:55,760
not not seeing the evidence and

2619
01:31:01,189 --> 01:30:59,040
certainly not seeing it in these videos

2620
01:31:02,709 --> 01:31:01,199
well thank you for saying that because

2621
01:31:04,709 --> 01:31:02,719
i'm glad you said that because i've said

2622
01:31:07,189 --> 01:31:04,719
that to many friends at points and times

2623
01:31:10,070 --> 01:31:07,199
and i can be wrong about this but i have

2624
01:31:11,590 --> 01:31:10,080
said for as much uh

2625
01:31:13,830 --> 01:31:11,600
for as much as as you take at

2626
01:31:17,110 --> 01:31:13,840
times i i secretly believe that mick

2627
01:31:18,470 --> 01:31:17,120
west would love to find something really

2628
01:31:19,990 --> 01:31:18,480
crazy

2629
01:31:22,310 --> 01:31:20,000
it's not secret

2630
01:31:25,189 --> 01:31:22,320
i would love it it would be great

2631
01:31:27,750 --> 01:31:25,199
i haven't heard that i and so i resp i i

2632
01:31:29,030 --> 01:31:27,760
do respect the fact that uh

2633
01:31:30,229 --> 01:31:29,040
one of the things is the same thing i

2634
01:31:32,390 --> 01:31:30,239
take approaching we just have different

2635
01:31:34,310 --> 01:31:32,400
approaches and i default to people who

2636
01:31:36,149 --> 01:31:34,320
have much better technical expertise

2637
01:31:38,310 --> 01:31:36,159
there because i say this is where i'm

2638
01:31:41,830 --> 01:31:38,320
good at this is i stay in my lane

2639
01:31:43,750 --> 01:31:41,840
um but we share in this idea that

2640
01:31:45,590 --> 01:31:43,760
you know

2641
01:31:47,590 --> 01:31:45,600
again we all kind of

2642
01:31:49,830 --> 01:31:47,600
it does no good to give opinions and

2643
01:31:53,189 --> 01:31:49,840
espouse some we you know people will out

2644
01:31:54,550 --> 01:31:53,199
there well clearly it's aliens you know

2645
01:31:55,590 --> 01:31:54,560
i think that's a little bit of a leap

2646
01:31:57,030 --> 01:31:55,600
but okay

2647
01:31:59,189 --> 01:31:57,040
um

2648
01:32:01,110 --> 01:31:59,199
but i think that the implication and

2649
01:32:03,350 --> 01:32:01,120
that's where i really

2650
01:32:06,310 --> 01:32:03,360
stay in it is to just say

2651
01:32:08,149 --> 01:32:06,320
we could be talking about something very

2652
01:32:10,870 --> 01:32:08,159
complex and so

2653
01:32:12,629 --> 01:32:10,880
um whether it's you and i don't not to

2654
01:32:14,870 --> 01:32:12,639
pick on you but whether it's people who

2655
01:32:17,830 --> 01:32:14,880
are legitimate skeptics or people who

2656
01:32:20,629 --> 01:32:17,840
are quote hardened believers let's try

2657
01:32:23,510 --> 01:32:20,639
to to not get framed into this dogmatic

2658
01:32:25,750 --> 01:32:23,520
frame of mind of of just trying to fit

2659
01:32:28,790 --> 01:32:25,760
into something let's always consider

2660
01:32:29,669 --> 01:32:28,800
that um and i mentioned this on twitter

2661
01:32:31,510 --> 01:32:29,679
you know

2662
01:32:33,910 --> 01:32:31,520
that's where i stand by it are these

2663
01:32:35,350 --> 01:32:33,920
objects flying the answer is yes and no

2664
01:32:37,910 --> 01:32:35,360
and the answer is yes and no that means

2665
01:32:41,030 --> 01:32:37,920
the real conclusion may lie beyond the

2666
01:32:43,270 --> 01:32:41,040
hypothesis and i'm a huge advocate and

2667
01:32:45,830 --> 01:32:43,280
and it may be with this

2668
01:32:50,149 --> 01:32:45,840
with ufos whether it's with ai and all

2669
01:32:52,229 --> 01:32:50,159
these things and i'm a huge advocate of

2670
01:32:54,149 --> 01:32:52,239
let's never simplify

2671
01:32:56,709 --> 01:32:54,159
things that could have complex solutions

2672
01:32:59,030 --> 01:32:56,719
i'm all about technological innovation

2673
01:33:01,350 --> 01:32:59,040
intellectual pursuits and it i don't

2674
01:33:02,550 --> 01:33:01,360
think it's fair to characterize you is

2675
01:33:03,910 --> 01:33:02,560
there and i

2676
01:33:05,510 --> 01:33:03,920
um

2677
01:33:07,350 --> 01:33:05,520
you know maybe i give you a hard time in

2678
01:33:09,350 --> 01:33:07,360
saying it's a simplistic solution

2679
01:33:10,790 --> 01:33:09,360
because the plain thing but at the same

2680
01:33:12,390 --> 01:33:10,800
time if that's what you really wanted we

2681
01:33:14,950 --> 01:33:12,400
wouldn't be talking right now you know

2682
01:33:16,310 --> 01:33:14,960
and i appreciate that and so

2683
01:33:17,590 --> 01:33:16,320
um

2684
01:33:20,310 --> 01:33:17,600
i i

2685
01:33:23,270 --> 01:33:20,320
it's it's weird you know and i think

2686
01:33:25,350 --> 01:33:23,280
that's what we can all like agree to

2687
01:33:27,030 --> 01:33:25,360
it's weird

2688
01:33:30,310 --> 01:33:27,040
and it is weird

2689
01:33:34,709 --> 01:33:32,709
even even like the

2690
01:33:36,310 --> 01:33:34,719
the videos themselves like the gimbal

2691
01:33:37,990 --> 01:33:36,320
thing with the rotating glare is a weird

2692
01:33:39,510 --> 01:33:38,000
thing that i'd never seen before and it

2693
01:33:41,270 --> 01:33:39,520
took me a while to figure out what i

2694
01:33:43,110 --> 01:33:41,280
think it actually is which is this

2695
01:33:45,990 --> 01:33:43,120
rotating rotating glare it's it's a

2696
01:33:48,470 --> 01:33:46,000
complicated thing and it's a new thing

2697
01:33:50,950 --> 01:33:48,480
and in some ways the flying saucer

2698
01:33:52,870 --> 01:33:50,960
explanation is simpler than the rotating

2699
01:33:54,629 --> 01:33:52,880
glare explanation and that's something

2700
01:33:57,030 --> 01:33:54,639
people accuse me sometimes of is is

2701
01:33:58,790 --> 01:33:57,040
creating these fantastic explanations

2702
01:34:00,229 --> 01:33:58,800
when there's a much simpler explanation

2703
01:34:01,350 --> 01:34:00,239
and that it's an alien spaceship why

2704
01:34:03,189 --> 01:34:01,360
don't you just go with the obvious

2705
01:34:04,950 --> 01:34:03,199
simple thing why have you got to do this

2706
01:34:07,189 --> 01:34:04,960
really complicated gimbals and

2707
01:34:08,310 --> 01:34:07,199
interlocking systems and axes and gimbal

2708
01:34:10,310 --> 01:34:08,320
lock and

2709
01:34:11,830 --> 01:34:10,320
flare and glare and

2710
01:34:14,149 --> 01:34:11,840
you know here so

2711
01:34:16,149 --> 01:34:14,159
uh people's perception of what is you

2712
01:34:17,590 --> 01:34:16,159
know the orcam's razer thing and what

2713
01:34:18,550 --> 01:34:17,600
the simplest explanation is often the

2714
01:34:19,990 --> 01:34:18,560
best

2715
01:34:23,030 --> 01:34:20,000
uh for a lot of people the simplest

2716
01:34:24,550 --> 01:34:23,040
explanation is actually something like

2717
01:34:27,189 --> 01:34:24,560
aliens or some kind of advanced

2718
01:34:29,750 --> 01:34:27,199
technology flying craft and the

2719
01:34:31,350 --> 01:34:29,760
ridiculous explanation is that it's a

2720
01:34:33,430 --> 01:34:31,360
rotating glare

2721
01:34:35,030 --> 01:34:33,440
so i think you you've always got to be

2722
01:34:37,830 --> 01:34:35,040
careful to uh

2723
01:34:39,990 --> 01:34:37,840
check your biases on these things

2724
01:34:42,390 --> 01:34:40,000
and obviously we're all guilty we're all

2725
01:34:45,109 --> 01:34:42,400
guilty of having a certain bias even if

2726
01:34:47,750 --> 01:34:45,119
we we try to be objective

2727
01:34:50,629 --> 01:34:47,760
uh you've got to keep an open mind

2728
01:34:52,950 --> 01:34:50,639
i try to keep an open mind i i entertain

2729
01:34:54,470 --> 01:34:52,960
these these hypotheses and i would ask

2730
01:34:57,109 --> 01:34:54,480
people who

2731
01:34:59,350 --> 01:34:57,119
you know made more ufo fans to also

2732
01:35:00,470 --> 01:34:59,360
entertain the hypotheses uh from you

2733
01:35:01,910 --> 01:35:00,480
know the other side we're not really

2734
01:35:03,109 --> 01:35:01,920
after this size we're just we're all

2735
01:35:05,990 --> 01:35:03,119
we're all trying to figure things out

2736
01:35:09,270 --> 01:35:06,000
here but keep her a genuinely open mind

2737
01:35:12,870 --> 01:35:09,280
not just an open mind about aliens

2738
01:35:14,470 --> 01:35:12,880
sure and then that is why i said uh i

2739
01:35:16,470 --> 01:35:14,480
appreciate you letting me come on here

2740
01:35:19,030 --> 01:35:16,480
and i hope that anybody

2741
01:35:21,750 --> 01:35:19,040
regardless of what their

2742
01:35:23,910 --> 01:35:21,760
you know pre-existing views are it is

2743
01:35:25,590 --> 01:35:23,920
that um

2744
01:35:28,550 --> 01:35:25,600
yeah i mean i think we've had we have

2745
01:35:30,790 --> 01:35:28,560
great dialogue here where man i i walk

2746
01:35:32,229 --> 01:35:30,800
away from it and and you know and i

2747
01:35:35,189 --> 01:35:32,239
think i even mentioned this to you that

2748
01:35:36,870 --> 01:35:35,199
the rotating glare thing i think you

2749
01:35:38,470 --> 01:35:36,880
provide a pretty good analysis with that

2750
01:35:39,750 --> 01:35:38,480
that's why i brought up the point going

2751
01:35:41,430 --> 01:35:39,760
am i missing something i didn't know

2752
01:35:43,270 --> 01:35:41,440
that rotating glare was so significant

2753
01:35:44,870 --> 01:35:43,280
to people i'm still like it doesn't rule

2754
01:35:47,669 --> 01:35:44,880
out your aliens and it doesn't rule out

2755
01:35:49,910 --> 01:35:47,679
the plane it doesn't rule out aliens

2756
01:35:52,310 --> 01:35:49,920
but it but it it does give a good

2757
01:35:54,470 --> 01:35:52,320
example there where now we can rule that

2758
01:35:56,070 --> 01:35:54,480
out remember i said the complex problem

2759
01:35:57,510 --> 01:35:56,080
they're zipping around not in our

2760
01:35:59,030 --> 01:35:57,520
physics but

2761
01:36:01,030 --> 01:35:59,040
we don't have evidence for doing that

2762
01:36:04,229 --> 01:36:01,040
right there so maybe we need to look for

2763
01:36:06,709 --> 01:36:04,239
something else um yeah we're pruning

2764
01:36:08,229 --> 01:36:06,719
pruning the tree of evidence here

2765
01:36:09,830 --> 01:36:08,239
getting rid of the dead wood that's kind

2766
01:36:11,590 --> 01:36:09,840
of getting in the way and eventually

2767
01:36:13,430 --> 01:36:11,600
we'll get a stronger tree which will be

2768
01:36:15,350 --> 01:36:13,440
able to support a uh

2769
01:36:16,790 --> 01:36:15,360
a good hypothesis that may turn out to

2770
01:36:19,830 --> 01:36:16,800
be the right one

2771
01:36:22,229 --> 01:36:19,840
i i i truly hope and that's where i

2772
01:36:24,790 --> 01:36:22,239
approach it from my part i understand

2773
01:36:26,629 --> 01:36:24,800
that maybe i get more accolades from the

2774
01:36:28,550 --> 01:36:26,639
ufo community but i think that's because

2775
01:36:29,910 --> 01:36:28,560
the work that i do looks at these people

2776
01:36:32,149 --> 01:36:29,920
who are investigating them from a

2777
01:36:33,109 --> 01:36:32,159
government standpoint or

2778
01:36:35,270 --> 01:36:33,119
you know i just have a different

2779
01:36:36,629 --> 01:36:35,280
approach it's it's you know not saying

2780
01:36:39,669 --> 01:36:36,639
it's it's it's

2781
01:36:41,430 --> 01:36:39,679
it's not scientific

2782
01:36:42,310 --> 01:36:41,440
it is an empirical

2783
01:36:43,750 --> 01:36:42,320
uh

2784
01:36:44,870 --> 01:36:43,760
logical approach and that's what i'll

2785
01:36:47,030 --> 01:36:44,880
make sure to let people know it's

2786
01:36:49,109 --> 01:36:47,040
through purely logic which i come from a

2787
01:36:51,510 --> 01:36:49,119
social science background where you

2788
01:36:53,430 --> 01:36:51,520
realize one thing and one thing only

2789
01:36:55,830 --> 01:36:53,440
people are freaking weird

2790
01:36:57,350 --> 01:36:55,840
people do weird things and

2791
01:36:58,870 --> 01:36:57,360
sometimes and i know this with your

2792
01:37:01,350 --> 01:36:58,880
conspiracy work

2793
01:37:03,830 --> 01:37:01,360
is that often times the grand

2794
01:37:05,350 --> 01:37:03,840
conspiracies the deep state

2795
01:37:06,950 --> 01:37:05,360
boil down to

2796
01:37:11,350 --> 01:37:06,960
um

2797
01:37:12,790 --> 01:37:11,360
back to that 1910 thing people have

2798
01:37:13,910 --> 01:37:12,800
harped on that with the release of the

2799
01:37:14,790 --> 01:37:13,920
videos

2800
01:37:22,629 --> 01:37:14,800
and

2801
01:37:23,910 --> 01:37:22,639
the form god bless him he you know

2802
01:37:25,430 --> 01:37:23,920
it's not like i'm buddies with him but

2803
01:37:29,189 --> 01:37:25,440
our interaction has always been very

2804
01:37:30,310 --> 01:37:29,199
pleasant um i assume uh mr luis elizondo

2805
01:37:32,790 --> 01:37:30,320
filled out that form i think he's

2806
01:37:34,870 --> 01:37:32,800
admitted that he misspelled gimbal all

2807
01:37:36,390 --> 01:37:34,880
right we're all human you know we all

2808
01:37:38,709 --> 01:37:36,400
make mistakes

2809
01:37:40,229 --> 01:37:38,719
and so a lot of these things

2810
01:37:41,510 --> 01:37:40,239
and i go that with the government i mean

2811
01:37:44,629 --> 01:37:41,520
that's why

2812
01:37:45,830 --> 01:37:44,639
uh i don't feud with them i've tried to

2813
01:37:48,070 --> 01:37:45,840
work with them to explain them the

2814
01:37:50,470 --> 01:37:48,080
information that we've got and uh you

2815
01:37:53,030 --> 01:37:50,480
know hopefully the same goes there i

2816
01:37:56,070 --> 01:37:53,040
would love if they and in fact so that

2817
01:37:57,910 --> 01:37:56,080
you are aware i have petitioned them you

2818
01:38:00,229 --> 01:37:57,920
know to their engineering reports down

2819
01:38:03,189 --> 01:38:00,239
at naval weapons systems command to try

2820
01:38:05,189 --> 01:38:03,199
to provide you me and everybody some

2821
01:38:06,870 --> 01:38:05,199
more information because if i think if

2822
01:38:08,870 --> 01:38:06,880
you have that information and we have

2823
01:38:11,669 --> 01:38:08,880
that information well that changes the

2824
01:38:13,030 --> 01:38:11,679
dynamic i don't think i i mean i could

2825
01:38:14,149 --> 01:38:13,040
be wrong but mick i don't think you're

2826
01:38:15,590 --> 01:38:14,159
going to go

2827
01:38:16,470 --> 01:38:15,600
you guys are still full you

2828
01:38:17,270 --> 01:38:16,480
know

2829
01:38:19,830 --> 01:38:17,280
wow

2830
01:38:22,629 --> 01:38:19,840
i'm going to look at the new information

2831
01:38:23,910 --> 01:38:22,639
right and see and see what we can do and

2832
01:38:25,990 --> 01:38:23,920
um

2833
01:38:27,830 --> 01:38:26,000
so yeah i know it's very it's a very

2834
01:38:29,590 --> 01:38:27,840
interesting uh

2835
01:38:32,149 --> 01:38:29,600
situation still know it's amazing it's

2836
01:38:33,910 --> 01:38:32,159
been going on so long as well it's uh

2837
01:38:35,430 --> 01:38:33,920
and hopefully

2838
01:38:37,189 --> 01:38:35,440
you know we'll get more information and

2839
01:38:38,790 --> 01:38:37,199
we'll be able to get some kind of

2840
01:38:41,270 --> 01:38:38,800
resolution you know at least on some of

2841
01:38:42,870 --> 01:38:41,280
these videos i'm i'm kind of confident

2842
01:38:46,070 --> 01:38:42,880
that at some point

2843
01:38:48,709 --> 01:38:46,080
uh my my at least my rotating glare

2844
01:38:51,430 --> 01:38:48,719
analysis is going to be vindicated but

2845
01:38:53,669 --> 01:38:51,440
uh it may take a while

2846
01:38:55,830 --> 01:38:53,679
i think and i'll go on record here we

2847
01:38:57,189 --> 01:38:55,840
are everybody from limited information

2848
01:39:00,629 --> 01:38:57,199
now i think you're rotating glare

2849
01:39:01,350 --> 01:39:00,639
analysis is is a good one i i will tell

2850
01:39:03,910 --> 01:39:01,360
you

2851
01:39:05,990 --> 01:39:03,920
i've spoken to f-18 pilots defense

2852
01:39:07,189 --> 01:39:06,000
industry experts technology engineers

2853
01:39:09,590 --> 01:39:07,199
and everything

2854
01:39:11,350 --> 01:39:09,600
the distant plane hypothesis they're not

2855
01:39:12,390 --> 01:39:11,360
on board with okay

2856
01:39:14,709 --> 01:39:12,400
but i'm not

2857
01:39:16,470 --> 01:39:14,719
i've never flown f-18 the rotating

2858
01:39:18,950 --> 01:39:16,480
gimbal uh thing that you have

2859
01:39:21,430 --> 01:39:18,960
demonstrated all of when chef said yeah

2860
01:39:23,590 --> 01:39:21,440
no that's that's pretty yeah i think

2861
01:39:24,390 --> 01:39:23,600
that that's a very good hypothesis and

2862
01:39:26,470 --> 01:39:24,400
so

2863
01:39:27,910 --> 01:39:26,480
um i don't know i brought this up and i

2864
01:39:29,669 --> 01:39:27,920
think some people were like no it's a

2865
01:39:32,470 --> 01:39:29,679
big deal they said on the tv show and

2866
01:39:34,070 --> 01:39:32,480
everything and i'm like

2867
01:39:35,510 --> 01:39:34,080
i i would hope

2868
01:39:37,750 --> 01:39:35,520
and i hope that you'd agree with me too

2869
01:39:39,990 --> 01:39:37,760
i would i don't think that you equally

2870
01:39:41,750 --> 01:39:40,000
you don't produce youtube videos for to

2871
01:39:43,830 --> 01:39:41,760
for people to go well there we go ladies

2872
01:39:46,229 --> 01:39:43,840
and gentlemen science has been solved

2873
01:39:47,430 --> 01:39:46,239
and the same goes for the tv shows and

2874
01:39:49,510 --> 01:39:47,440
so i don't know what they said i don't

2875
01:39:51,350 --> 01:39:49,520
pay attention to that not knocking your

2876
01:39:52,390 --> 01:39:51,360
youtube videos i'm just saying

2877
01:39:54,790 --> 01:39:52,400
um

2878
01:39:57,270 --> 01:39:54,800
people can be wrong people do weird

2879
01:39:58,470 --> 01:39:57,280
things and um

2880
01:40:01,590 --> 01:39:58,480
again

2881
01:40:04,070 --> 01:40:01,600
it could be a non-rotating alien

2882
01:40:05,830 --> 01:40:04,080
spacecraft that for whatever reason if

2883
01:40:07,990 --> 01:40:05,840
it's alien

2884
01:40:11,030 --> 01:40:08,000
they sure don't give a what we

2885
01:40:12,870 --> 01:40:11,040
think and want to do because they're not

2886
01:40:14,790 --> 01:40:12,880
they're not giving us any evidence

2887
01:40:16,950 --> 01:40:14,800
that's a whole other

2888
01:40:20,149 --> 01:40:16,960
discussion what the heck is going on

2889
01:40:24,550 --> 01:40:22,470
try to pretend

2890
01:40:26,310 --> 01:40:24,560
and i've been you know almost 20 years

2891
01:40:28,950 --> 01:40:26,320
i've been trained to understand human

2892
01:40:30,629 --> 01:40:28,960
behavior and the way people work i don't

2893
01:40:33,750 --> 01:40:30,639
even understand that i'm not even going

2894
01:40:35,510 --> 01:40:33,760
to try to understand an alien yes yeah

2895
01:40:36,950 --> 01:40:35,520
it's interesting and that's all i'll say

2896
01:40:38,550 --> 01:40:36,960
i know we're probably running close on

2897
01:40:39,430 --> 01:40:38,560
time and i'll just say

2898
01:40:40,790 --> 01:40:39,440
um

2899
01:40:42,310 --> 01:40:40,800
i appreciate it

2900
01:40:43,669 --> 01:40:42,320
and i would hope that anybody coming

2901
01:40:45,750 --> 01:40:43,679
through there whether it's the people on

2902
01:40:47,270 --> 01:40:45,760
metabolic that they really put in a lot

2903
01:40:49,109 --> 01:40:47,280
of great work and they do this analysis

2904
01:40:51,590 --> 01:40:49,119
the people on the ufo side there's some

2905
01:40:53,510 --> 01:40:51,600
really good legitimate investigators

2906
01:40:55,430 --> 01:40:53,520
i'll tell you as someone who trained

2907
01:40:59,030 --> 01:40:55,440
investigators

2908
01:41:00,310 --> 01:40:59,040
you don't hear about them much they

2909
01:41:02,470 --> 01:41:00,320
don't get on there and argue with you on

2910
01:41:04,070 --> 01:41:02,480
twitter they don't do this type of stuff

2911
01:41:06,390 --> 01:41:04,080
but they do some really good analysis

2912
01:41:07,990 --> 01:41:06,400
and i hope that on both of those sides

2913
01:41:10,390 --> 01:41:08,000
the potential

2914
01:41:12,870 --> 01:41:10,400
that this is a complex problem that's

2915
01:41:13,669 --> 01:41:12,880
going to require some some really

2916
01:41:15,270 --> 01:41:13,679
uh

2917
01:41:16,790 --> 01:41:15,280
out-of-the-box thinking or something

2918
01:41:19,189 --> 01:41:16,800
being king they realize that our current

2919
01:41:21,109 --> 01:41:19,199
hypothesis may not fit an answer we got

2920
01:41:23,350 --> 01:41:21,119
to look a little further hey man if we

2921
01:41:24,950 --> 01:41:23,360
encourage that

2922
01:41:26,629 --> 01:41:24,960
i really don't give a if they

2923
01:41:28,390 --> 01:41:26,639
decide it's aliens or not but if they

2924
01:41:31,430 --> 01:41:28,400
develop the technology that leads us to

2925
01:41:34,149 --> 01:41:31,440
mars or they develop the ai that does

2926
01:41:35,430 --> 01:41:34,159
something that you know is innovative

2927
01:41:37,430 --> 01:41:35,440
because they're trying to solve what

2928
01:41:38,870 --> 01:41:37,440
this could be well

2929
01:41:40,709 --> 01:41:38,880
i really don't care if it's aliens or

2930
01:41:42,629 --> 01:41:40,719
not and i know that

2931
01:41:44,149 --> 01:41:42,639
the ufo crowd maybe maybe don't want to

2932
01:41:45,510 --> 01:41:44,159
hear that but

2933
01:41:47,990 --> 01:41:45,520
i'm like you

2934
01:41:49,109 --> 01:41:48,000
i'd love for it to be aliens i really

2935
01:41:51,910 --> 01:41:49,119
would

2936
01:41:53,669 --> 01:41:51,920
but if it's gonna be it i do want it to

2937
01:41:55,750 --> 01:41:53,679
be held to the standard where i think i

2938
01:41:58,470 --> 01:41:55,760
mentioned that that mick west and neil

2939
01:42:00,470 --> 01:41:58,480
degrasse tyson and saystack

2940
01:42:03,189 --> 01:42:00,480
lead the parade arm and arm of

2941
01:42:04,470 --> 01:42:03,199
excitement because this would be

2942
01:42:06,950 --> 01:42:04,480
the greatest

2943
01:42:09,270 --> 01:42:06,960
human history so

2944
01:42:11,270 --> 01:42:09,280
yeah let's treat it like that

2945
01:42:13,350 --> 01:42:11,280
yeah i think a lot of scientists are

2946
01:42:15,270 --> 01:42:13,360
really uh science fiction fans as well

2947
01:42:17,189 --> 01:42:15,280
so here they're they're all on board

2948
01:42:18,470 --> 01:42:17,199
with uh aliens being out there if it's a

2949
01:42:20,470 --> 01:42:18,480
possibility

2950
01:42:21,910 --> 01:42:20,480
and they were they would love for uh

2951
01:42:23,430 --> 01:42:21,920
they would love for it to happen and

2952
01:42:24,709 --> 01:42:23,440
they would you know they would love even

2953
01:42:26,310 --> 01:42:24,719
if it's just something like discovering

2954
01:42:29,510 --> 01:42:26,320
radio signals from another star that

2955
01:42:30,950 --> 01:42:29,520
would be quite uh quite amazing and uh

2956
01:42:32,790 --> 01:42:30,960
aliens flying around in little lane and

2957
01:42:34,790 --> 01:42:32,800
spaceships would be quite amazing too

2958
01:42:36,950 --> 01:42:34,800
but then again if it's just like the

2959
01:42:39,189 --> 01:42:36,960
chinese with their warp drives that

2960
01:42:41,189 --> 01:42:39,199
would also be very amazing so whatever

2961
01:42:43,109 --> 01:42:41,199
happens uh there's a potential for

2962
01:42:44,390 --> 01:42:43,119
something that's amazing but i i'm still

2963
01:42:46,310 --> 01:42:44,400
holding out for the potential whether

2964
01:42:47,430 --> 01:42:46,320
something pretty boring as well

2965
01:42:49,030 --> 01:42:47,440
but uh

2966
01:42:50,550 --> 01:42:49,040
we may never know

2967
01:42:52,070 --> 01:42:50,560
yeah well we got to disprove that other

2968
01:42:53,830 --> 01:42:52,080
than i would just say

2969
01:42:56,390 --> 01:42:53,840
i don't think that the alien spaceships

2970
01:42:57,350 --> 01:42:56,400
are flying around they're doing

2971
01:42:59,750 --> 01:42:57,360
something

2972
01:43:02,149 --> 01:42:59,760
at least based on what we got there so

2973
01:43:04,070 --> 01:43:02,159
so maybe that'll that'll drive you crazy

2974
01:43:05,590 --> 01:43:04,080
and i've made all the ufo people happy

2975
01:43:07,350 --> 01:43:05,600
because now you're going to be trying to

2976
01:43:09,430 --> 01:43:07,360
figure out videos to how do you present

2977
01:43:10,870 --> 01:43:09,440
something flying that's not flying and

2978
01:43:12,390 --> 01:43:10,880
hey dude

2979
01:43:14,390 --> 01:43:12,400
i'll be the first actually i don't have

2980
01:43:16,070 --> 01:43:14,400
the ability to i will write whoever i

2981
01:43:18,310 --> 01:43:16,080
need to to put you in for a nobel prize

2982
01:43:19,109 --> 01:43:18,320
if you could figure that one out because

2983
01:43:20,950 --> 01:43:19,119
that's

2984
01:43:22,550 --> 01:43:20,960
that would be great yeah yeah that would

2985
01:43:24,870 --> 01:43:22,560
be great

2986
01:43:27,189 --> 01:43:24,880
we'll see all right well this has been

2987
01:43:29,189 --> 01:43:27,199
uh very interesting uh

2988
01:43:30,870 --> 01:43:29,199
and hopefully it will uh kind of clear

2989
01:43:32,709 --> 01:43:30,880
some things up about you know my

2990
01:43:35,430 --> 01:43:32,719
position and your position in our

2991
01:43:37,830 --> 01:43:35,440
relative positions it's not like i'm

2992
01:43:39,990 --> 01:43:37,840
arguing that uh it has to be this way

2993
01:43:42,310 --> 01:43:40,000
i'm just pointing out certain things and

2994
01:43:45,030 --> 01:43:42,320
you've you've obviously done great work

2995
01:43:47,109 --> 01:43:45,040
like on the uh the more people and

2996
01:43:48,390 --> 01:43:47,119
institutional side of the investigation

2997
01:43:50,709 --> 01:43:48,400
and uh

2998
01:43:52,790 --> 01:43:50,719
kind of blending those things together

2999
01:43:54,470 --> 01:43:52,800
and sorting the wheat from the chef i

3000
01:43:56,070 --> 01:43:54,480
think we can we can maybe uh get

3001
01:43:58,070 --> 01:43:56,080
something in the long run and keep

3002
01:44:00,149 --> 01:43:58,080
plugging away at all these people and

3003
01:44:01,830 --> 01:44:00,159
get more information from them

3004
01:44:03,830 --> 01:44:01,840
i'm excited what i've taken away from

3005
01:44:08,950 --> 01:44:03,840
this is you believe it's aliens so great

3006
01:44:12,390 --> 01:44:10,550
thanks a lot and i do hope that people

3007
01:44:14,070 --> 01:44:12,400
take this and uh

3008
01:44:16,229 --> 01:44:14,080
this is how real science and this is how

3009
01:44:17,910 --> 01:44:16,239
innovation occurs we have people of

3010
01:44:19,669 --> 01:44:17,920
different diverse backgrounds coming

3011
01:44:21,030 --> 01:44:19,679
together and arguing points because

3012
01:44:22,550 --> 01:44:21,040
there's things that you brought up that

3013
01:44:24,310 --> 01:44:22,560
i'll walk away with and i hope others

3014
01:44:26,070 --> 01:44:24,320
walk away with and go huh

3015
01:44:28,550 --> 01:44:26,080
interesting there and maybe vice versa

3016
01:44:30,229 --> 01:44:28,560
but definitely vice versa yeah so cool

3017
01:44:32,390 --> 01:44:30,239
i'm glad to be able to

3018
01:44:34,709 --> 01:44:32,400
to demonstrate that and that's the best